Tuesday, July 5, 2011

Are We Unprofessional? Do You Give a Shit?

In arguing a point, when statistics and logic are not on your side, what do you resort to?  An ad hominem attack.   Many people may disagree with my points, and the points that are made by other scam bloggers.  But very few, if any, have resorted to attacking the scam bloggers as people.  Not if they have any sense.  After all, none of our readers have a clue as to how we compose ourselves in our personal and professional lives.  Most realize that this is our outlet, but we don't appear rabid in person.  I'm telling you right now, I'm not frothing at the mouth.  Now, one little lemming, has resorted to the lowly last resort in arguing that we, the scambloggers, should shut the hell up.  He states:

The main problem I have with scam blogging lies in their decorum.  These scam bloggers are future lawyers.  When the economy picks up, they will be drafting wills and contracts and complaints, arguing about truth and justice to judges and juries, and advising individuals and businesses on how to comply with a multi-faceted legal system.  It reflects poorly on future lawyers—members of a profession that prides itself for critical thinking and searching below the surface for the truth—that they would so quickly say that even they, the next generation or lawyers, would be so easily fooled by employment statistics.  And when many of the legal profession’s future caretakers can be seen in public on the Internet throwing tantrums about their job prospects and debt, however valid those concerns are in their own right, what does that say about the future of the legal profession as a whole?  What of the legal community’s sense of exceptionalism?  Of being special?  Of being held to a higher standard?
Of being professionals?
Let me get this straight, by calling attention to the fact that so many lawyers are idiots (in the financial, cost-benefit analysis sense, of course) we are making lawyers look like idiots?  Oh, so we have to make sure to maintain the pristine image of lawyers among laypeople by not pointing out the scam.  Gimme a break!  The "sense of exceptionalism,"  i.e. elitism, went out the window when 200+ law schools opened up and started churning out attorneys like widgets.  There is no exceptionalism, or "being special" in the law.  I will not stop blogging until people are flatly unimpressed with my profession.  It's not impressive.  Frankly, it was easy to become a lawyer.  The hard part starts when you begin paying for it.  As for our sense of decorum, we would not have been as successful as we have been in drawing attention to the white elephant sitting in the middle of the room without blogs like Nando's Third Tier Reality.  How many people would take the time to read his shocking facts and stats if not for the picture of steaming shit in toilets?  His writing style, more so than my own, is of the "shock jock" type--which has been widely successful in drawing the victims in--as well as significant media attention.  This is what Andrew Spillane, i.e. Marquette Lemming, has to say about the content of the scam blogs:
These blogs are dripping with anger and vitriol.  Some are littered with curse words.  One website even refers to law schools not as schools but with various names for toilets, restrooms, and garbage cans and will even post piles of fecal matter and vomit to begin a rage-fueled rant about a particular legal academic institution.  And what of professionalism? Not for us, says one scam blogger, for that is a concept imposed by the elites in the legal profession upon the rest of the bar.
The "anger and vitriol" may be penned by Nando, myself and other scambloggers--but we are just reflecting the general consensus of our readers.  If you read the comments on many of the scamblog posts, they can be more dirty and "low" than the original post.  More than once, I've taken a comment and made it a post--because it was just that good (or bad, according to Spillane).  We are bringing the feelings of the community to the forefront.  Why should attorneys, victims of a Ponzi scheme, feel alone in their victimization?

Let's go back to the day that I started blogging.  I want you to know how I felt.  I lost my big law job.  I felt like a loser.  I did everything that one is supposed to do to succeed in life and as an attorney (I know some of you disagree, but no one would have pictured me so down and out).  I was a failure and I felt like a bigger loser because I didn't know anyone else who felt scammed by my profession.  I started the blog in the hopes that someone would reassure me that I wasn't alone.  I may have been an idiot for going to a Tier 1 law school on a partial scholarship, but I wasn't alone in that my efforts didn't lead to the intended result.  As it turns out, there are thousands of others who regret their decision as much as I.  So, whether I was unprofessional in whining about it, or calling attention to the scam, or reaching out to others who are similarly situated--I don't care.  My alleged unprofessionalism does not extend to my courtroom behavior or to my decorum with clients.  I am still an excellent lawyer--but this is not an excellent or exceptional career.

We are trying to clean house from the basement up.  Maybe being a lawyer will be exceptional one day--but not until being a lawyer is an exception to the rule--and not the natural fall back option for all of the college grads in the country.

Here's a pic of vomit for shits and giggles.
  If you find it offense, there are a couple of arrows at the top of the screen that you can use to navigate away from this page.


  1. So the fraud itself is less offensive than a thumbnail of a toilet? Good to know. Good to . . . know.

  2. Well said. If this were Craigslist, I would nominate this article, for "best of."

    Another tidbit I noticed.....taken from above:

    "It reflects poorly on future lawyers—members of a profession that prides itself for critical thinking and searching below the surface for the truth—that they would so quickly say that even they, the next generation or lawyers, would be so easily fooled by employment statistics."

    I say, if the object of law schools is to get admitees to "think like lawyers" then the critical thinking skills required would not come until after law school. In other words, how can it be a derision that a future lawyer be fooled about employment statistics when they have not yet entered law school and thus, have not acquired the critical thinking skills required to see through the BS?

    Wait...maybe that is the key: the whole point of law school is to develop the necessary critical thinking skills over the coarse of three years so that they can look back and realize they were fucked over!

  3. @ 8:56 - Agreed.

    That's the point, isn't it. You don't go to a doctor's office on the understanding that he or she might push an unnecessary or harmful drug on you because, you know, caveat emptor and all. This is education. Education! It's completely inappropriate!

    And where is this dude's outrage for the fact that law schools are - by his own admission - "fooling" students with employment statistics. Surely that looks even worse for the legal profession!

  4. That's the best this idiot could come up with?

    Obscenity is a moral concept in the verbal arsenal of the establishment, which abuses the term by applying it, not to expressions of its own morality but to those of another.

    This moron is a handmaiden for the establishment & I find it hilarious that this sycophantic quisling has the gall to call scambloggers "unprofessional." I know exactly the type of douche this kid was in law school by the way he begins his "article" on a blog whose content derives from law school professors desperately trying to prove relevance to anything (as it's Marquette for christ's sake and remember the last time anyone cared what a Marquette Prof had to say about anything?)

    Quisling writes, "I first want to express my sincerest gratitude for the opportunity to appear on the Marquette University Law School Faculty Blog."

    Just look at his profile picture. Res ipsa loquitor.

  5. "arguing about truth and justice to judges and juries . . . ."

    Damn, that's funny.

  6. Andrew Spillane is an insufferable suckup/cockroach. As Demos pointed out, you can tell that he has no character or balls by the way he prefaces his entry.

    From Spillane the Gutless, Ball-less Shill:

    "But lo and behold, the employment statistics reported by the schools may have been inflated, counting someone working at the law school on a part-time basis and someone working as a barista at Starbucks as employed under their statistics."

    You lost ALL credibility right there, bitch! The schools absolutely inflate their employment and starting salary statistics. Hell, schools have admitted to doing so. Pull your head out of your ass - and open your eyes, Andrew!

    As JDU poster "GuyInGorillaSuit" noted: "Before they bemoan the crudeness of the delivery, they should focus on rebutting the substance of the argument."

    The shills and apologist cockroaches cannot refute the substance of the argument. So they MUST resort to childish retorts. Try using some facts to back up your case, Ass-Clown!

  7. I'm a fairly avid follower of BIDER and TTR. I'm wondering, and I'm sorry if you have but I've missed it but, are there any law programs you would actually recommend outside of say the top 4?

    If I go to law school it would be to become a patent attorney though I'm wondering if it would be smarter to settle for being a patent agent or even just a plain old engineer.

    I've found what "they" told us about the engineering profession is a lie too. I've largely been out of work for a year and a half with a BSME whilst computer programmers who have the audacity to call themselves engineers waltz into high paying positions while the Pres. yaps on about how the US needs more engineers.


  8. The piece of trash known also failed to mention that many of the comments make my aggressive tone and style look mild, in comparison. By the way, Andrew, the scam-bloggers have earned their reputation by their strong reliance on facts, charts, graphs, and industry statements SHOWING that the legal job market is shrinking.

    Andrew, we are not charging $43K per year for a TTT "legal education" - with accompanying anemic job prospects. We are not publishing misleading info, for the purpose of enticing more lemmings to take the plunge. We are not providing a false picture.

    If you want gut honesty - I figure you cannot handle it, sissy - I should be posting images of sexual assaults on my blog to better illustrate what is going on with American "legal education."

    You should reserve some of your frustration with those who are fleecing the taxpayers and students - and consigning graduates to a lifetime of debt servitude. Grow a backbone, a pair of balls and a brain, bitch!

    In the end, Andrew Spillane reminds me of a religious pawn who gets offended when one swears after being hit in the face by someone else. Instead of getting upset with the punk who took a shot at you, the brainless twit/prude is mad at your reaction - which is a lesser sin than the initial actor committed.

  9. @11:43 - Could I suggest that if you're going to do this - I'm sure others will weigh in on whether it's a good idea at all - perhaps you could find a program in a foreign country?

    It would be hard to justify the money at almost any school in the U.S. at this point.

  10. Nando:

    Yes, and it won't surprise you that my short comment citing this statistic from today - "Nationwide, there were only 26,239 job openings for lawyers, while 53,508 people passed the bar." - which makes his entire blog post irrelevant, was moderated out.

    Cite: http://www.sbwire.com/press-releases/sbwire-98517.htm

  11. The bastards don;t want to hear the truth. I'm not surprised they did not publishe your comment. I mean, these people have all the solutions...in their minds. They don't want the truth to get in the way.

  12. Anon @ 11:43 p.m.
    I generally feel that going to law school is not a great idea. However, there are certain circumstances that would make it more acceptable. For example, if you have the money to pay for it in cash... it's not a bad idea. If you have a spouse that can support you and pay for it, or at least cover you living expenses... might be worth it. Also, if you have a full, no strings attached scholarship... okay. If you get into a school in the top 14, in an area where you'd like to live, that's fine. It all depends.
    Maybe you should do a shout out to Alton in the shoutbox to the right. He is trying to be a patent attorney and working at the PTO with a wifey that helps and GW part-time. His situation is one that I think more acceptable than that of most lemmings.

  13. P.S.
    I just want people to KNOW what they are getting into!

  14. @ 12:07 AM.

    I commented on the Marquette article as well. I also made a reference to this article in my posting. It was civil and did not violate any terms of service. I do think that it violated the TOL (Thinking of Lemmings) which is why it never showed up.

  15. I'm sure it will get moderated. It's the faculty blog after all, and they can't have dissenting opinions over there. It would be bad for business.

  16. Locke gave a shit.

  17. Here is the comment I posted on that site:

    "Nando on July 6, 2011 11:54 am Your comment is awaiting moderation.


    Maybe you should ask Gordon Hylton, professor at Marquette University Law School, what he thinks of these scam-blogs.


    Back on July 30, 2010 at 9:24 pm, J. Gordon Hylton of Marquette Law School said the following, about Third Tier Reality:

    “For a thought-provoking (and sobering) blog devoted to the realities of legal education in the 21st century, one should check out Third Tier Reality


    Maybe you will have the balls to post my comment, this time. I highly doubt it, though. Keep sucking up to the Industry; it will take you far.

    “But lo and behold, the employment statistics reported by the schools may have been inflated, counting someone working at the law school on a part-time basis and someone working as a barista at Starbucks as employed under their statistics.”
    By the way, schools are allowed to count those working in non-law positions – or part-time and temporary – as “employed.” How is that ethical?!?!"

    My first comment was civil and professional. For $ome rea$on, Pussy Boy or the school decided not to publish it.

  18. Nando:

    It is par for the course with these guys. I was mad when Marquette did not post my comment but I got over it simply because my comment wreaked of the truth. Something that law schools don't want to hear.

    The fact is....scambloggers have time on their side. The current system cannot sustain itself and if the law schools refuse to listen to the truth, the truth is gonna get em. I am just waiting for the whole system to collapse so that I can watch and laugh.

    I wish I would have copied my post that was placed on the Marquette page so that I could have at least posted it here. It got lost in cyberspace.

    I think the scambloggers are a valuable resource.

  19. @11:43 Anonymous

    I am a Civil Engineer, my husband is an attorney. I still make twice an hour what he does and we are both only able to find part time jobs. Engineering is miserable right now, but being an attorney is even worse. Also you have to calculate student loans into the equation. My husband's law school student loan payments are triple what I pay and I got a BS. Oh and I supported him through law school so that was strictly tuition, books and fees. My husband wishes he would have done anything else besides going to law school.

    I also have seen nothing but computer jobs online while searching. My two BIL's who are computer programmers are doing well. Can you branch out into any computer stuff? You probably took quite a few computer programming classes? I think a better strategy would be getting a Master's in something computer science related if you think more education would help your situation. Going to a good school locally using in-state tuition would be way cheaper than any law school.

  20. Of course it's ad hom, but it's true that too many law school students go for the cocktail parties and politicians they think they'll be sleeping with.

    Then you have young programmers who think playing video games is halfway to a degree in computer science.

    Aspiring med students are the worst- they want to cure cancer over a lunchtime drink at a bar. They even call it "journal club".

    That's Boston, anyway.

  21. One thing that is getting lost in the discussion is that the law isnt a decorous profession even for those who get to practice at the top of the pyramid. Even rainmakers making +$5mm per year are simply salesmen who make a small percentage of the take home pay of their client overlords. Have you ever seen a managing partner at a V10 interact with a CEO client? I have. It's pretty pathetic. I have also seen a Partner literally throw a statute book at an associate. And verbal harrassment is so commonplace it is expected. This is not the Profession they make it sound like in law school. If you want to advocate for decorum, fine. But dont aim your complaints at those with no power.

  22. @11:43:
    If I were you, I would take the patent bar and become a patent AGENT. A patent agent can do anything that a patent attorney can do except litigate. It costs nothing except the cost of a bar study course. The patent bar is extremely hard so plan about 3 months of solid studying.

    Patent agents can either own their own practice or work for a law firm. Either is a good option.

    If you want to be a patent litigator (which is where the big money is) you should go to a very good law school as most patent litigation is a big firm practice area. This market has shrunk though. 5 years ago, I used to get calls from head hunters every 2 weeks. I haven't gotten a call now in over a year.

    Take the patent bar and become a patent agent first. It is a no risk proposition.

  23. This is a great post. It's not unprofessional at all, especially if you feel like you've been shut out of law and your JD makes you less employable than when you started. You need a "profession" before you can be professional.

    The combination of debt and incredible competition is making law an unhappy place. Exhibit One for that point are the comments section in Above the Law (obviously a place I spend some time at). You know those seriously unhappy people? Those are your class mates, co-workers, colleagues, and future bosses.

    While one can rag on the scam blogs for their language, that does not take away from the message. Law is undergoing a structural change. Law schools based their pricing on a business model that going the way of the trade guild and the steam engine. And they published misleading employment data.

    What's even more important, is that this message has been out for years, but it gets ignored. Does anyone remember Phila Lawyer (author of Happy Hour is for Amateurs)? He said what the scam bloggers have been saying five years ago.

  24. Some of the members of the scam blog community do a very good job of putting a human face on the problems, and that's entirely consistent with expressing yourself passionately, and even using a bit of "unprofessional" language.

    But, some people do hurt the community by going too far. It's not a question of professionalism, but one of prudence. If you come across as an unlikable personality, people may hear about your problems, but they won't sympathize with you, they won't want your situation to improve, and they're certainly not going to advocate on your behalf.

    (And to the above commenter, Phila who?)

  25. This comment has been removed by the author.

  26. Anonymous said...

    Locke gave a shit.

    July 6, 2011 10:07 AM"

    Actually, the opportunistic ingrate was only in this for the publicity. End of story. In case you missed it, she sold out (her words) to Kaplan. She will now be their social media person. (She mentioned this on JDU, but like a scared dog, she decided to take it down. It must be tough not having any credibility or integrity.)

  27. Quite frankly, I'm glad blogs such as these exist. I was a legal secretary who was told by my boss "Become a lawyer. You'll make a lot more money and never be out of work."

    I passed the bar, got a hideous insurance defense job, and was laid off less than a year later. Now I'm working as...a legal secretary. Except now I have $100K of debt. YAY me! Blogs like this, reminding me I'm not alone, are frankly the only thing keeping me from jumping out a window every time I have to transcribe yet more dictation.

  28. @Anonymous July 5 that wants to be a patent attorney. What exactly are you expecting to do? Do you plan to work solo or be hired? Work with newbies or work for big corporations?

    In order to make a law degree work for you as a future patent attorney, you need the right connections and I assume if you have the right connections, then you would not be considering going to law school right now?

    Anybody can file a patent; you don't need to be a lawyer. Patent research is due to experience with patents, very careful anal research, and your background as an engineer is what is most helpful. The part that requires a lawyer is if a client needs representation in a legal matter.

    You could open up a patent company with yourself in charge, do all of the research and business part yourself, and then hire lawyers on an as needed basis. It would be a lot cheaper and you call start right now without law school debt.

    Another idea is to see if a patent lawyer will hire you to do patent research for him or her. I would start if you can finding out if you can intern if nothing else with a patent attorney. That would give you a more realistic viewpoint than any of us can offer.

    I have a STEM degree and MPA, and yet I work in a non-STEM field right now, so I understand your pain. I know that STEM degrees are not the gravy train either and I hate that they are depicted that way. At one point in my life I did a little bit of patent research without a law degree in conjunction with other legal stuff. So I know it can be done. I would recommend partnering with a lawyer instead of becoming a lawyer.



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