Saturday, November 13, 2010

Georgetown University: Help or Employment Manipulation

Found this article and thought I'd share:
With many graduates struggling to find jobs, the Law Center has announced that it is extending its program, giving stipends to graduates participating in internships for public interest organizations.
The program provides students with $4,000 so that they can participate in law-related volunteer programs, according to Barbara Moulton, assistant dean of the Office of Public Interest and Community Service at the Law Center. Started this summer, the program has now been extended for three more months in order to aid graduates still unable to find jobs.
The program is not advertised on the Law Center’s website, but has been announced to Law School students via an email. Currently it is only available to members of the Class of 2010 who are unemployed.
OPICS will only distribute the stipends to students whose internships with the volunteer organizations last for at least three months. The graduate must also continue to look for permanent employment in order to receive the stipend.
The program comes at a bleak time for law school graduates: While 88 percent of law school graduates of the Class of 2009 were employed by May 2010, 25 percent of the jobs reported are temporary, according to The National Association for Legal Career Professions, a higher percentage than earlier years. Another 10 percent of the jobs reported are half-time. 
Wow. Those employment stats are dire for such a reputable law school.  I would like to think that Georgetown is giving these stipends out of the kindness of their hearts, but I know better.  I'm sure that the stats are coming due for the Class of 2010 and the numbers aren't looking good.  This stipend, a drop in the bucket, is enough of a carrot to make the little Hoyas jump at the "opportunity" and count themselves as employed.

This plan is reminiscent of Duke's little ploy.   If any Georgetown Administrators come to this site, let me be clear.... STOP ACCEPTING STUDENTS.  The only way you can ensure your employment stats improve is to limit your class size and cut your budget.  Unless you want to walk over homeless Georgetown Law Grads on M Street, quit pumping them out.


  1. What is a "law-related volunteer program?" A legal aid clinic, or are they expanding their definition of what's allowed in order to accommodate as many students as possible? Is an internship with a fair housing organization that's unrelated to brief-writing or representing clients "law-related?" Is a volunteer position with a church "law-related" because of the establishment clause? Is working at Wal-Mart "law-related" because they get sued all the time?

    Personally, I think it's great that kids from Georgetown, Columbia, and Duke are being affected. It rebuts that stupid "you all just didn't work hard enough" argument when kids with the same degree and work history as many of our national politicians are living at home with 150k in debt.

  2. This made me outloud break up laughing: "If any Georgetown Administrators come to this site, let me be clear.... STOP ACCEPTING STUDENTS."
    Such naivite... How do you think administrators and professors get paid? Answer: by collecting TUITION and APPLICATION FEES.

  3. Yes, that is irrefutable logic. "If any Georgetown Administrators come to this site, let me be clear.... STOP ACCEPTING STUDENTS." Should all money making ventures stop making money if they are not serving the greater good? By that logic, then I'm guessing McDonald's should stop making people fat. Hold on, they are just offering the product...and the consumers are buying it. You argument didn't work for the tobacco, alcohol, or fast food industries. Why would it work for Law Schools? Because you say so? Love the work you are doing, but your logic is flawed this time. To work on the folks using the product makes more sense than to try to plead to the mercy of those getting rich of off said consumers.

  4. Love the picture. Here in Detroit our law grads prefer underpasses.

  5. And, yes, limiting the numbers on the supply side DOES work, since that's what they do in medicine.

    LOTSA bright kids can't get in who would likely be good at it.

  6. Let's call this what it is; it's a way for GTown Law to tell USNWR that 100% of its graduates are employed.

  7. Maybe they will do what Brooklyn Law School did and allow the students to do softcore porn:

  8. Why don't we just create a mechanism whereby law schools can pay the ABA or NALP $50K a year to officially publish "100 PERCENT EMPLOYMENT PLACEMENT WITHIN NINE MONTHS OF GRADUATION"?!?!

    It would at least save everyone the trouble of constructing job placement rates.

  9. As someone intimately familiar with the DC bar/club "scene", I'd say $150k in debt is worth it when you can say you're a GT law student and sleep with all the naive undergrads you can handle. Try impressing a girl by saying you're an engineer and see how far it gets you... and our employment is high(-ish) by comparison.

  10. The key stat in the rankings that they all lie about is "employed within 9 months." Georgetown told me that 94% of the Class of 2009 was employed within 9 months. Couple problems with that - first, I was in the Class of 2009 and they never checked with me. How many others did they forget to ask? Second, as the 9-month mark approached, we got a similar email, in which the school was basically making a bid to buy points in the US News rankings by creating 20 bullshit jobs in the admissions office. The jobs lasted like 6 weeks and paid peanuts, but you can bet they were denominated as full-time employment.

  11. $4000 for a minimum of 3 months work... As little money as that is, I bet it could kill your ability to legally claim you are volunteering. The application process alone probably makes it not worth it.

  12. 40 hr/wk * 4 wk/mo * 3 mo = 480 hours

    $4000 / 480 hours = $8.33 per hour!!!!!!

  13. This nonsense is even making news on the world stage; from this week's "Economist" ...

  14. These administrators do NOT have to fear more of these articles and "bad employment" stats coming out? Why? Because as long as the focus remains on law students' plight, NO ONE WILL SYMPATHIZE OR BE ANGRY.. Too many people are struggling.

    Nando has the right idea. Keep hammering the focus on the salaries of deans, administrators, and investors in the student loan machine.

    No matter how many students are deterred, more will just fill there place.

    We need to get people angry. We need to get the high school and college students angry. And of course VOTE

    Asking the people in power in education to self-police is like asking banks to restructure your mortgage and take a loss or politicians to pass campaign finance reform. Ain't happening. Ever

  15. Angel,

    Once again, you've inspired me. Please enjoy the video, and let me know what you think. (And the rest of you BIDER readers, please let me know as well.)


  16. I like... thanks for putting that out there Ron! Btw, the career counselor so basic instinct with the way she sits....
    work-study... ugh.

  17. Only about 50% of Georgetown graudates have permanent, full time employment?? Georgetown??? And since these are their self-reported numbers, they are of course heavily skewed and the reality is probably far worse. Impressive!

  18. I graduated from GULC in 2000 without a job, and no one from the school ever followed up with me to see if I was employed and where. I did get a job within a couple of months with a "shitlaw" firm with a very low starting salary. I have no idea how GULC gets its employment data, but it sure isn't accurate.

    1. They get the data from US News - a fixture at #14 in the T14, they can't afford to lose a single point in the rankings. I graduated recently and supposedly 96% of us were making 160K within 9 months of graduation. I guess they need to say that or the banks won't even think about approving loans for the worthless toilet paper they issue to their graduates.

  19. At first blush, GULC's stats look pretty recession-proof. Everybody got 160K after graduation as planned, except for a few stragglers in government and academia:

    Despite this, there has evidently been a sudden, unexplained surge of interest in "small to medium" firms, which apparently have yet to reciprocate with offers:

    Finally, when the bullshit job they counted you as having for their stats falls through, there is this invaluable resource:

    Now, go back to the first link and look at those stats again.



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