It was not so long ago that you and I were among the over 40,000 graduates of the class of 2011. In fact it has been about 9 months and I, like most of you, recently received an email from my CSO office asking me to complete the post graduate employment survey. I remembered back to a presentation my CSO director gave first year stating our school's median graduate salary was $63,000 and that we boasted an impressive 86% rate of employment upon graduation. During the presentation, I noticed a footnote on the bottom of the Power Point stating the stats were based on a 35% response rate. I raised my hands, pointed it out, was brushed off and the footnote was removed from the document in the Symplicity library.
This was my first indication something was wrong. Soon, I discovered blogs like this one and began to spread the word to other law students and 0L's. As I read this blog and others, I learned that the rosy picture law schools paint about employment is affected by the low response rate to the graduate employment surveys and the fact that the "winners" of the law school game are more likely to report their salaries. (according to Law School Transparency, my schools response rate looks to be under 20% last year) Also, since there are few winners, CSO may contact them more aggressively then the grads tending bar and serving lattes.
What if we all, bad, worse and ugly, reported our employment situation in detail to our CSO offices?
If you are a graduate of 2011 or know one, please ask them to complete the survey below and email it to their career services offices IMMEDIATELY!
Are you employed
Where?
How many hours per week?
How much money do you bring home in a month?
What are your monthly student loan payments?
What payment plan are you on? (standard, extended, graduated, IBR)
Are your loans in deferment, forbearance or default? (If yes Which)
Is your job temporary or permanent? (If temporary when will it end)
Does your job provide health insurance?
Does your job require a J.D?
What do you actually do for work? (i.e. Skadden litigator or sandwich artist)
Best of luck to you all, I know as you do that it's rough out there.
RedJ.D.
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I'd like to run my own little tally of where May 2011 grads are today. Drop a note as to what you are doing currently in the comments section. Other scambloggers are doing the same, maybe we can come up with our own sample survey results. Make sure to answer the above questions and post anonymously!
Thanks,
Angel
Posts
Hey Angel,
ReplyDeleteI'm a 2010 grad, but still think my responses are worthwhile and valuable, so here goes. By the way, I consider myself one of the lucky ones compared to the situations of most of my fellow grads.
Are you employed - yes
Where? - state/local organization
How many hours per week? - 20
How much money do you bring home in a month? $1100.
What are your monthly student loan payments? Would be around $1100-$1500. (To be honest, not too sure - it was really confusing to understand and I am currently in forbearance for one of my loans and IBR on the other.)
What payment plan are you on? (standard, extended, graduated, IBR)- IBR for one loan.
Are your loans in deferment, forbearance or default? (If yes Which) Forbearance for another loan.
Is your job temporary or permanent? (If temporary when will it end)- permanent
Does your job provide health insurance? No. Haha, that's a funny one! Also, I don't get paid holidays, nor vacation.
Does your job require a J.D? - Yes - requires either a JD or a Masters.
What do you actually do for work? (i.e. Skadden litigator or sandwich artist)- a professional job that is somewhat considered legal.
And remember, folks, I am considered one of the lucky ones because when I compare myself with my fellow grads, I fared much, much better.
Angel,
ReplyDeleteThank you for putting up the post. my information is below.
Are you employed...Yes
Where?... Urban DA's Office
How many hours per week? 45-50
How much money do you bring home in a month? 3,500
What are your monthly student loan payments? 800
What payment plan are you on? (standard, extended, graduated, IBR) Law School - Standard, Undergrad - Extended
Are your loans in deferment, forbearance or default? (If yes Which) No
Is your job temporary or permanent? (If temporary when will it end) Yes, 6 month contract
Does your job provide health insurance? No
Does your job require a J.D? Yes
What do you actually do for work? (i.e. Skadden litigator or sandwich artist) Criminal Prosecution
Like the poster above, I consider myself very lucky which goes to show how twisted the situation has become for law grads. Good luck all.
RedJ.D.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteAre you employed?: Yes.
ReplyDeleteWhere?: A private corporation.
How many hours per week?: Fifty to seventy.
How much money do you bring home in a month?: About $4,000.00
What are your monthly student loan payments?: About $2,000.00
What payment plan are you on?: A standard plan.
Are your loans in deferment, forbearance, or default?: No.
Is your job temporary or permanent?: It's permanent.
Does your job provide health insurance?: Yes.
Does your job require a J.D?: No.
What do you actually do for work?: I'm a librarian.
I graduated law school in 2004; I've been very lucky to've forged a career using the master's degree I earned in 2005 after realising I'd been had. I do, however, still live in abject poverty and will for at least five more years to service loans, so I've essentially spent my entire productive adult life paying for the mistake of going to law school (I'm thirty-four years old).
Are you employed?: Yes.
ReplyDeleteWhere?: A solo (except for me) law firm.
How many hours per week?: 20-25.
How much money do you bring home in a month?: About $2900.00
What are your monthly student loan payments?: $272.00
What payment plan are you on?: Graduated
Are your loans in deferment, forbearance, or default?: No.
Is your job temporary or permanent?: Permanent (thougb the partner constantly grumbles about me, suggesting that I will be let go at any moment)
Does your job provide health insurance?: No.
Does your job require a J.D?: Yes.
What do you actually do for work?: Primarily workmens' comp, which I loathe.
It's really interesting to see these responses. I imagine most people don't like to share these. One day I will share my story here, and I hope that I can be as lucky as a couple of you were.
ReplyDeleteNon law graduate here. These responses look pretty good so far.
ReplyDeleteMaybe you don't see 2k a month after loans as a good income, but I do...
Are you illiterate? Of the people bringing home $2000 after loans, one of them has a temp job and will be unemployed in 6 months, one could not get a job as a lawyer, and one has no health insurance or job security. And $24,000 is not a good salary for people who spent SEVEN YEARS in higher education.
ReplyDeleteClass of May 2011 here.
ReplyDeleteNot Employed
After getting rejected for retail jobs (target, best buy, grocery stores etc), I started volunteering at a legal aid agency in a large city (15-20 hours a week) and I am still looking for part-time work.
I have 120k+ in loans and all are in deferment or forbearance.
I have gotten rejected by banks for teller positions, retail stores for warehouse/cashier positions, by large and small companies for 'human resources' and 'compliance' positions.
Who better to advise you on your human resources policies and compliance matters than a licensed attorney?
I've gotten a better response as I took off law school (but that's bitten me as well because interviewers ask what i did for the past 3 or so years, and i answer 'graduate school' plus the fact that my resume just has titles like 'legal intern, law clerk, judicial intern, intern' does not help.
+ the fact that i went straight from undergrad to law school in 2008 reallyyy hurts because a lot of jobs have required at least one year of full time job experience (which i truthfully cannot say that I have)
For comparison, people that graduated with me in 2008 with liberal arts majors have steady gigs paying 30+ k
Recently I saw postings on craigslist for an entry-level associate job for 30k, no benefits and expected to work 60+ hours and on saturday. Don't paralegals make more?
Not employed
ReplyDeleteLaw school loan payments will be $750/month (standard repayment), but I'm currently in forbearance.
I have health insurance through a private plan with a $15,000 deductible. It's $150/month.
My situation is similar to the commenter above me. I've been turned down for everything from janitor and security guard, to bank teller and truck driver, to adjunct professor and store manager. I spend my days dropping applications for anything that I'm qualified for, or nearly qualified. In some applications, I omit my JD. In others I don't. Either I'm overqualified with the JD, or I omit the JD and am left with a sketchy recent work history of internships and volunteer positions. I have to move out of my apartment at the end of March because I can't pay April's rent. If I don't find work by then, I guess I'll be living in my SUV.
Right now, I'm trying to go back into the Army but my vision deteriorated rapidly in law school and I need to get a medical waiver for it. The Army doesn't pay for the optometrist tests, so I'm dropping hundreds of dollars on that (and had to pay for an HIV test, drug screening, and alcohol screening before that, to even be considered for a waiver). This is in hope of receiving orders to report in October. Even if that works out, April to September is a long time to not have an income. My credit cards are nearly maxed and my bank account is empty. When I get back my security deposit, after vacating my apartment, it will be applied to minimum payments on my credit cards, the next installment of my car insurance, my next health insurance payment, and maybe top off my fuel tank.
I make Lionel Hutz look successful, by comparison.
May 2011 Grad from a Tier 1 school, I'm still unemployed as well.
ReplyDeleteI was slated to to enter the Marine Corps as a JAG officer after graduation but now that the wars are wrapping up my billet got canned and I was told to seek greener pastures.
Military budget cuts aside I've been looking for jobs as an attorney or in quasi-legal positions (e-discovery, higher education, government, etc..). I've had a few interviews since last May, I can count them on one hand (one for a prosecutor job and two for e-discovery project manager jobs). I have actually lost count of how many jobs I've applied for or how many potential employers have strung me along until they decide to go radio silent on me and cease communication.
I usually get skeptical looks in interviews when a potential employer sees that I have a JD, as they wonder what utility that degree could possibly provide in their field or I am simply told that 2 years of work as a paralegal prior to law school and three years of internships during law school simply isn't enough job experience.
Apparently I was well qualified for the USMC but not for anything else. Not really sure what to do anymore.
May 2011 graduate
ReplyDeleteAre you employed? Yes
Where? A private company (temp) Solo firm I started a few months ago (when I get clients)
(I must say that I did get a position at a very small firm directly out of school but was forced to leave after witnessing the only other attorney assault a client and argue with a judge on how the rules of civil procedure didn't apply to her.)
How many hours per week? 40-60
How much money do you bring home in a month? ~3000
What are your monthly student loan payments? 200 for the bar loan I cant defer.
What payment plan are you on? (standard, extended, graduated, IBR) Standard
Are your loans in deferment, forbearance or default? (If yes Which) Yes, forebearance, all the rest
Is your job temporary or permanent? (If temporary when will it end) Private Company job is a temporary position that ends in about 2 weeks
Does your job provide health insurance? Not for temporary workers
Does your job require a J.D? Yes
I'm a 2011 Grad, from a state university.
ReplyDeleteAre you employed? YES
Where? PUBLIC CORPORATION (RAILWAY COMPANY)
How many hours per week? 40 STANDARD (but I usually get off early since I'm a salary employee)
How much money do you bring home in a month? $4500
What are your monthly student loan payments? $60
What payment plan are you on? (standard, extended, graduated, IBR) STANDARD
Are your loans in deferment, forbearance or default? (If yes Which) NO.
Is your job temporary or permanent? (If temporary when will it end) PERMANENT
Does your job provide health insurance? YES PLUS PAID VACATION, PAID SICK DAYS up to 60 days AND federal holidays.
Does your job require a J.D? NO.
What do you actually do for work? (i.e. Skadden litigator or sandwich artist) MECHANICAL ENGINEER AT A LOCOMOTIVE COMPANY THAT DOES ELECTRONIC DESIGNS.
Moral of the story for those that are still in the decision making process of going to law school or not, if you want to be rich, don't go to law school (unless you are already rich) or else you will get rape by those law schools.
BTW I pay $1500 towards my student loan every month, the rest goes to my living expense and my car, I'll have zero debt (school, credit, plus car loans) in about 3 months from now. I'm a recent grad.
For those that really like to go to grad school: DON'T BE A LAWYER BE A DOCTOR PLEASE! (WE NEED CHEAPER DOCTORS, I don't like $25 co-pay visit it sucks).
Btw, my engineering job is a entry level position where I'm still a newbie at many design ways, boss just told me since I'm up to caliber I'll be getting a raise 9 months from now. If you a are a sharp mind person , don't go for law school, go back and do another BS in engineering, this will help you pay off your loans from your previous mistake. There are always more than one type of schools that's out there, don't fall for a law.
ReplyDeleteAlso I'm writing this because a friend of mine is thinking about going to law school and telling her in person doesn't see enough to convince her, instead I hope that by giving her this site's address she can read the real experience of law school grads.
Are you employed: Yes
ReplyDeleteWhere: Solo Law Practice (not mine)
How many hours per week? 50 - 60 hrs, minimum 6 days a weeks, one week off between x-mas and new years.
How much money do you bring home in a month? 2,700.00
What are your monthly student loan payments? $300
What payment plan are you on? IBR on Fed.
Are your loans in deferment, forbearance or default? None of those
Is your job temporary or permanent? Sort of permanent, but certainly this job won't last more than a year.
Does your job provide health insurance? No.
Does your job require a J.D? Sort of. I pretty much am doing the same job as my prior position as a clerk, with additional court coverage.
What do you actually do for work? Secretary, janitor, brief writer, coverage/hearing attorney, client intake specialist, biller, dog walker, collection agent, document runner, process server, therapist . . .
I am the original poster and just wanted to update. My contract ended at the end of June and I am in the first week of unemployment. Working on getting my sd consolidation loan finalized so I can go on ibr and have signed up for a pro bono service.
ReplyDeleteThe internet is filled with people complaining about things that are wrong. People who are doing things right never stop to post of blogs.
ReplyDeleteSounds like you aren't doing thing right.
Delete