First off, just in case you didn't know where you and the millions of unemployed graduates fall on the hierarchy of all things important:On Wednesday, lawmakers passed a bipartisan resolution to honor dogs.
Specifically, service dogs. H. Res. 1614, which passed by a voice vote Wednesday afternoon, recognizes "the extraordinary efforts and dedication of these service dogs."
Don't get me wrong. We love dogs here at BIDER. But with one in seven Americans living in poverty and the unemployment rate at unprecedented numbers, you'd think there'd be more pressing issues on their agenda...such as the private loan bankruptcy bill. Well, that barely made it out of subcommittee and will likely never get passed:
The Private Student Loan Bankruptcy Fairness Act of 2010 (H.R. 5043), which has been offered in several preceding congressional sessions, would restore provisions previously included in the bankruptcy code. In 2005, Congress voted to amend federal bankruptcy law to make private student loans unforgiveable debt in bankruptcy unless a borrower is able to demonstrate that loan repayment would be an "undue hardship."
According to the Chronicle of Higher Education, the bill faces long odds for a final passage. Many Republicans oppose the measure, warning that it would drive up interest rates and further shrink the market for private loans. Additionally, the congressional legislative session has only four weeks before the House's target date to adjourn.
Just say no to private loans. The Damned Generation will not find any student loan relief from the government beyond IBR and even that has its problems.
In other news, all of us has a story about someone they know or have come across who is facing a lifetime of soul-crushing student loan debt and unemployment. Several of us scambloggers who went to top schools know these people all too well. Some of our readers have shared their stories about making it into a top 14 law school only to see their world fall apart before their very eyes.
I have plenty of stories about classmates who graduated cum laude from T14 School of Law only to find themselves unemployed with $100k debt two years after graduation. Maybe I will share more of these stories with our readers sometime. That being said, I didn't attend Harvard Law where everyone assumes will guarantee their graduates a lifetime of wealth and success. Well, think again.
I won't give away all the details in order to protect the identities of everyone involved, but I know of someone who graduated from Harvard Law School and currently works at a motel. Not even a hotel, a motel in a seedy area where no one who graduates from Harvard Law School dreams of ever spending an hour of their life let alone the rest of their life. This HLS grad is forced to work there in order to have a place to live and to pay off the remainder of their student loans. I wish I could share more, but I won't embarass anyone with specific details. Have any of you come across a T14 or even a T3 graduate down in the dumps? Please share in the comments.
Has Lifetime considered a sequel to Homeless to Harvard? How about Harvard to Homeless: The Postgraduate Years. Just a suggestion.
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I also have a friend who posted a freelance job on Craigslist. He received over 70 responses in less than 24 hours, many from Ivy League graduates. One applicant was a recent Harvard graduate trying to survive as a freelance writer for anonymous people on Craigslist. So sad.
ReplyDeleteGive me a break, Angel.
ReplyDeleteHarvard Law School IS the legal establishment. Maybe a graduate falls through the cracks once in a while, but it is by far the exception, not the rule.
HLS grads make up a great # of BigLaw equity partners, US attorneys, Federal judicial clerks, and the Federal bench. Who knows how many state court judges went to HLS - I'm sure a great many state Supreme Court justices did. And let's not forget that 6 of 9 US Supreme Court justices are HLS grads (6.5 if you count Ginsberg, who went to HLS before transeferring and graduating from Columbia.)
The President of the United States is an HLS grad. How many US Senators? Members of the Cabinet?
Let's get real here. If you graduate with a Harvard Law School degree, your prospects in the legal industry are very, very good - much better than most others, save Yale graduates.
It just so happens that just being a Yalie in and of itself is no guarantee either. If you're a Yalie, unless it was Yale Law then these days you're right down there with State college graduates and community college graduates and sometimes non-college graduates, looking for the same jobs and being ruled out and having doors slammed in your face everywhere you go because you're "over" educated. In some parts of this country it takes "experience" and most importantly "connections" to get jobs that should rightfully go to top-tier university graduates first and then the uneducated "relatives of the hiring manager" LAST.
DeleteThere are great difficulties with the job market for lawyers now. It is awful out there. But do you really believe that graduating from ANY school, no matter how prestigious,is a guarantor of future success? It's not enough to say I know someone who went to Harvard who doesn't have a job. The current market present huge problems, but even when the market was great you could probably find someone from HYS who was unemployed.
ReplyDeleteI meant "presents huge problems"
ReplyDeleteIts not so much that Harvard hasn't felt the recession, but it is more likely the HLS grad will get any job there is available.
ReplyDeleteYou know I've discussed issues with the student loan bankruptcy bill as well. But its time for us to discuss VIABLE solutions. I don't want to have to declare bankruptcy to get help. Help me to actually pay the loans off faster (http://almostdebtfree1.blogspot.com/2010/09/sallie-mae-billion-dollar-scammer-no.html). Require the lender to have a "for principal only" electronic payment option; put a limit on capitalized interest on prohibit it all together when loans are deferred on in forbearance; apply over-payments to principal instead of advancing payment dates. These are the type of solutions that can actually help.
ReplyDeleteSallie Mae's Bitch
www.almostdebtfree1.blogspot.com
Hardkocks wrote this one!!!
ReplyDeleteAnonymous @ 10:47am: Um, no. Becoming President of the United States is the exception to the rule. Maybe 20 years ago Harvard had a 100% employment rate with all of their graduates going onto prestigious positions, but that is no longer the case. A graduate of HLS has a greater chance of being laid off or graduating without a job offer today than they will of becoming the next Barack Obama. This person who works at a motel also had really good grades in college and law school, so I don't think this person "fell through the cracks" because of laziness or stupidity. Tell that to all of the T14 graduates from the last several years who were laid off or never received a job offer from OCI. Wake up already. The point the scambloggers are trying to make with these individual stories is that no law school can 100% guarantee their graduates a good job anymore. That may have been the case when Obama went to HLS, but those days are over. That is the risk graduates take today when they spend $200k on a degree. This is even affecting Harvard graduates. If you don't believe me, do your research and find the articles in the Harvard Crimson, Above the Law, and reputable national newspapers that have reported on top graduates who have been laid off and can't find work.
ReplyDeleteGive me a break, Hard Knocks! Harvard grads will ALWAYS get the prime cuts of the cow, while the rest of us (except Yale) will get the crap cuts, if we're lucky enough to get any cuts at all.
ReplyDeleteI love how you 1st Tier folks are crying now. Us from Tier 2-4 have been suffering since even before the recession hit, unable to find jobs or even being considered for jobs because we didn't have the pedigrees to get into the AKC dog show that is the legal profession.
When things rebound (or at least get a little better), you guys will be the ones getting the jobs, while the rest of us mutts find ourselves in the same position of struggling.
Sick and tired of you folks trying to claim the hardship that is en vogue right now. Just admit it - you're still in am advantageous position with your nice pedigree. Why don't you go hang out at the Harvard or Yale club and network. (Or wherever you went to school.) At least you have the papers to get in. The rest of us will wait for you on the sidewalk.
Sorry - even some of us Yalies are "out waiting on the sidewalk" these days.....especially if we went there in the 90's and "not recently enough, sorry, thanks for stopping by...."
DeleteHard Knocks, you sound like a whiner now.
ReplyDeleteHow about we make a trade? I'll trade you my New York Law School degree for your T14 degree. Then you can really see what adversity in the legal industry is all about and REALLY have something to complain about.
I'd rather be unemployed with your T14 degree than with my T400 degree. At least you have a modicum of legitimacy and hope.
Exactly! T1 is no safer than T4. That's the point we're making. When T4 was suffering before, people said stick to a T50. Now we're hearing that you should stick to a T14. None of these schools will give you what you need, a degree you can get a job with--absent connections.
ReplyDeleteSorry, not flaming. Just wanted to add this...
ReplyDeleteLIST OF NOTABLE HARVARD LAW SCHOOL ALUMNI (from Wikipedia):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Harvard_Law_School_alumni
Seriously, with all these alumni connections, do Harvard grads really have anything to complain about? (And this list is only NOTABLE grads. How about the 1000s of others who aren't notable, but who are still in positions of power in our society?)
Relax, unemployed Harvard Law School graduates. Keep sending out those resumes and network at the Harvard Club. The pain will be over for you very soon, while it continues unabetted for the rest of us.
Angel, please... T1 is MUCH safer than T2-4. Your pain will be short-lived. T2-4's pain is perpetual, WITH THE SAME AMOUNT - OR MORE - OF STUDENT LOAN DEBT!!!
ReplyDeleteHarvard grads will be fine. Sure they can't really get big law now, and a lot of other positions are competitive. But they can still get $50k entry level jobs in something else. That is not an option other students have!
ReplyDeleteAnd when the economy does improve, the T5 students will all be the first ones to be picked up. The rest of us don't even have that! I don't know what we are supposed to do.
I'm at work right now, but this can't pay the bills.
On a related note, it's amusing how our political and economic betters say the economy won't recover until housing does, while simultaneously making it impossible for the next generation of home buyers to enter the market. Why it's almost as if we're completely screwed!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.doctorhousingbubble.com/removing-a-generation-of-college-educated-graduates-from-purchasing-homes-student-loan-and-mortgage-bubbles-collide/
Just curious as to your word choice of H.R. 5043 "barely" making it out of subcommittee when it passed 6-3 with voting going down party lines.
ReplyDeleteAt any rate, I think a some of the readers are missing the point - thirty years ago, there would be absolutely no chance that an HLS grad would be severely underemployed, but now there is a slight chance due to the trickle-down effect of the legal environment's morphing into a wasteland. That's all it is - I don't think she's making the claim that a significant number of HLS grads are struggling at the rate that TTTT'ers are.
I think HardKnocks' point is that the part that makes little sense is the sheer cost of attending law school. When even going to Harvard is not a guarantee of lucrative employment after graduation, it simply makes no sense for it to cost so much.
ReplyDeletebtw Angel, Hardknocks thanks for your work in drawing attention to this problem. Though law school worked out for me, I know too many people who have gotten screwed by the way the system is set up. It's amazing how entrenched the conventional wisdom about lawyers making lots of money is.
I think there's legitimate disagreement about Harvard Law School not being a guarantee of good employment. I would say the vast majority of Harvard Law graduates have a very good chance of obtaining a very good job after graduation, even in the current climate. And if they aren't able to land something right away, they'll be among the first hired when things pick up.
ReplyDeleteLet's not create a myth here about the 'hardships' Harvard Law graduates face. I can only wish to have their 'problems'.
What you have here is the continuing phenomenon of law school being the default mechanism for liberal arts grads to postpone their entering a non-existent job market. They still think, for some strange reason, that attending a non-elite law school will fix them right up. It will work, for an anecdotal few, but just not the majority.
ReplyDeleteThe fault lies with the profession, not the kids. Medicine, dentistry, et al., the real professions, who self-regulate, would NEVER let their "brand" get cheapened like this. Never.
Why shouldn't we sympathize with the unemployed T14 or even T3 graduate with $100k+ in debt anymore than I sympathize with you for making the mistake of attending a TTT? Unemployed is unemployed. When you can't pay the bills it no longer matters if you have a degree from Harvard or a degree from Cooley. We are all in the same boat. And once you are out of Biglaw, you can never go back. You are stigmatized, blacklisted, and in this economy it is very difficult to recover from a year or two gap on your resume. There are always fresh, new graduates who can do the same work for less. I know T14 grads who have been out of work for more than two years. Do you really think they have a good chance at a law firm job? Stop sounding bitter because you went to a TTT. Does that mean you can't feel sorry for the people who are unemployed and went to a better law school than you?
ReplyDeleteI don't feel sorry for them because a Top Tier graduate has so many more networking options - their alumni are strong and powerful, and they have access to this pool. I know it's not a guarantee of anything, but at least it's an opportunity for access that most Tier 2-4 grads don't have.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I'm sure Harvard, Yale, Columbia, etc. have very good Career Services offices that are equipped to assist graduates gain access and find jobs. This is unlike, say, the NYLS Career Services office, which directs graduates to temporary agencies.
Here's a link to the NYLS Career Services website:
http://www.nyls.edu/employer_and_career_services/career_services_for_alumni
Scroll down the page toward the end and, behold - there's a listing for "Temporary Agencies in NY, NJ & CT." Open it up and see NYLS's little caveat: "The following is a list of temporary agencies that place recent graduates in attorney and/or paralegal positions. By including agencies on this list, we are not recommending them. We merely felt it might be useful to compile the information for you to use as you see fit."
Right, so when we can't find permanent jobs because no one will even consider us because we went to NYLS, and we have to start repaying the $150k+ student loans to Access Group - of which the dean of NYLS, Richard Matasar, is also the chairman - then would you recommend them?
And as we all know, temporary document review is a lot like the Raid Roach Motel: Once you check in, you'll never check out. It's almost impossible to be considered for a permanent job after temping is on the CV. Just one more strike against an NYLS grad.
HardKnocks, you sound a bit arrogant. The "mistake" of attending a TTT school? Is it still a mistake if you were mislead by the graduate employment statistics? Here's the link to that lie:
http://www.nyls.edu/employer_and_career_services/career_services_for_students/employment_statistics
Sorry, pal - I don't sympathize with you, either. Top tier graduates have so many more resources available to them. It's not a guarantee of anything, but it's an opportunity and advantage that the rest of us don't have. When the economy improves, you and your comrades will be working again, while it will be the same unemployed or doc review song and dance for those of us with lesser pedigrees.
Also, why is NYLS directing graduates to temporary agencies that place paralegals? Aren't we lawyers? Didn't we earn our JD and pass a bar exam?
ReplyDeleteI sympathize with NYLS Victim. I am a fellow TTT grad, i.e. Third Tier Drake. However, Angel and HardKnocks are sympathetic to TTT and TTTT grads. In this post, HardKnocks comes across as a little arrogant - but that does not take away from this blog's overall message.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nytimes.com/1990/11/20/nyregion/death-of-a-homeless-man-from-ivy-league-to-streets.html
Here is a story of an Ivy grad in the 1970s who died homeless in the streets of New York - in Fall of 1990.
"Thomas Ebbers had all the advantages. He was financially independent, graduated from an Ivy League college and had a bright future in the 1970's. But when he died at age 47 two months ago, stabbed to death in a park on the Lower East Side of Manhattan, Mr. Ebbers owned only the clothes on his back -- he died a homeless New Yorker who had just begun to climb back from alcoholism and despair."
I know a man who graduated from Harvard with a biology degree about 7 years ago. He now lives with a roommate, rides the bus, and works at a goddamn grocery store. Does this sound like a great outcome for an Ivy grad? Also, this guy graduated with $100K in debt.
The American corporate media LOVES to tell the Liz Murray story. I give her a lot of credit for overcoming her circumstances, which appear to have been dreary since entering this world. However, she is THE EXCEPTION.
We need the media to get past focusing on "the Horatio Alger bull" and start directing their energies and resources covering the LEGIONS of debt-soaked college grads in this nation. Of course, these idiots/mindless automatons would rather focus on "feel good" stories. This is a tremendous disservice to the public and future generations!!
Nando, the down-and-out Ivy Leaguers you refer to are the exception, not the rule.
ReplyDeleteDown-and-out TTTers are the rule, not the exception
The larger point is that a Harvard degree used to guarantee that there would be no such exceptions. Insisting that anyone from Harvard "will be fine," when increasingly, many HYS grads will NOT be fine, makes no more sense than insisting that everyone with a law degree will be fine, which is what much of the general public continues to do. The point is that the idea that higher education of any degree of prestige is a golden ticket must be discredited. Because it simply is no longer true. It will pay off for some, particularly those at the top. But that number will continue to dwindle.
ReplyDeleteI find it very hard to believe that Harvard grads will have a sizeable difficulty in securing decent employment.
ReplyDeleteI find it hard to believe because if that happens, everything has pretty much collapsed entirely, and we're not even discussing this. The system is simply unsustainable if nobody benefits at all.
Newsflash to those who haven't figure it out yet: The economy is not going to "recover" anytime soon. It could take another decade for the US to get back on its feet - if we're lucky. I personally think the country is screwed for another generation at least. There is a very good chance that Angel, Knut at First Tier Toilet, and other scambloggers who went to T1 schools will be in the same boat TTT grads have been in for the next decade or longer. And networking doesn't work for those of us who didn't have the connections and money before we entered an Ivy League or T14 school. The reason why so many Ivy Leaguers end up well is often irrelevant of their degree alone. It is because they come from wealth and power. Those are the reasons why they get into top schools in the first place. Oftentimes T14 career services and "networking" are as useless as the ones at TTTs.
ReplyDeleteThere are no guarantees in this world for HLS grads. One of my classmates from HLS could not find a job. As a result, he worked as a handyman. Another classmate graduated from Harvard College and Harvard Law School. She applied this year for 30 jobs and had no offers. So, she opened up her own law office in the hope that she can pay the mortgage and bills.
ReplyDeleteWe are in a generational economic depression. Harvard grads will suffer hard times along with everyone else.
People believe that a successful academic career that ends at Harvard is a guarantee of success in the professional world. In reality, Harvard graduates are typically no better off for having this special credential. It's not a vocational school. Sure, it gets you more job interviews for higher paying positions, it gives potential employers more confidence in hiring you, and that means more opportunity, but once you're in a job your employer expects you to do work. By work they don't mean they're going to spend the next four months explaining something to you, assign you six or more books on the subject, require you to write several essays, and take at least two exams demonstrating your knowledge of the topics discussed before you actually have to perform. If that were what the world of work were like, yes we Harvard graduates would rule it. But that's not reality.
ReplyDeleteThe other part of your story is that it's unfair to expect graduates to pay back their student loans. I personally feel your pain, but I did borrow the money and therefore must pay it back--even if it takes my entire lifetime. The terms are extremely reasonable, and if you go a few years without paying a dime the worst thing they're going to do to you is destroy your credit rating so that you can't--as most uneducated poor people do--buy a house and an Escalade you can't afford either. Seriously, what are they going to do to you, repossess your education? It sucks, but you have to pay back your loans.
The harshest end of that though is that we have 18 year olds out there who are borrowing up to $160,000 to get their undergraduate degrees, and they have no conception of what that means. All they know is that they have money now; they don't think about paying it back.
And apparently even graduates of Harvard Law School don't think about paying back their loans.
Best advice I can give on this topic is, if you are going to attend college, consider spending a few years afterwards working and paying your student loans before you head to graduate school and borrow more. Then you will have professional experience on your resume, a better understanding of the financial commitment you are making, and be able to evaluate if it's worth it.
Unless you need that degree for your profession--teacher, lawyer, doctor--then it is not a requirement for professional success and very likely wont even help. Ask yourself ahead of time: "Do I need this further education in order to do what I want to do?"
Those few years right after college that you propose we "spend working" - where, pray tell, are there these things called JOBS that will HIRE us fresh out of college like that?! HYP graduates are spending years looking, getting ignored, having doors slammed in our faces, etc. We are not turning down lower-than-we-expected-salary jobs out of pride or anything like that. We're really not getting any OFFERS. Not getting interviews, or getting the interview but then hearing DIDDLY-SQUAT afterwards. And if you're from HYP and you're a minority, it's even worse. Then the Yale degree gets the interview -- the skin color gets the door slammed in your face when you get there (figuratively; as companies know that if they did that literally it'd be "lawsuit time.")
DeleteOnly works if there are jobs after graduation...
DeleteIt doesn't matter what institution that you graduated from and what your degree is because in the current economy it's very hard for people to get a job. I don't expect the economy to improve and I certainly don't believe the statistics on the news because they are off. There are a lot of unemployed people. If people expect just because you went to a top school means that you automatically get a job and guaranteed to be successful the rest of your life then these people seriously need to get out of their fairy tale dream.
ReplyDeleteThese people need to open their eyes and talk to Harvard graduates along with other people from different colleges with different degrees who are doing work such as at register at a mall or supermarket, receptionist at a gym, in a bookstore stocking shelves, bars, restaurants, and so forth.
I am one of the recent graduates with a science and MBA degrees who is unemployed from graduating from other institutions. I knew while I was in college that the road wasn't going to be bright after graduating from undergraduate studies and I knew that I will face the same after completing my MBA. It wasn't about me, but the economy and high competition.
During the time I was in college I focused on building my resume by joining student chapters, volunteering in the community, doing government internships, and so forth. I had no prior work experience before college so I made sure that I focused on work experience and activities besides just GPA. I maybe unemployed, but I am glad that I had worked very hard and still continue to do focusing on building my resume and applying for jobs. I did get interviews for permanent jobs, but was unsuccessful. I learned that you need to think realistically and get feedback from people in order to develop your own gain plan. I had researchers telling me that I would have difficulty getting a job after getting my sciences degree. I do feel I am competitive in the job market and I am optimistic that I will get my job hopefully soon. Rather than be discouraged, I look for ways to build my resume and keep applying to jobs. So people need face reality and take on the challenges rather than expecting someone to magically give them a job because of what school they want to or what degree they got.
Thanks, fellow Science major. Not just the Ivies but a Science (STEM) degree: also no longer a guarantee. Harvard itself is not even "Number One" in the sciences; that distinction goes to Johns Hopkins (which isn't even an Ivy) or, among the Ivies, Cornell.
DeleteYes, keep working harder. That will solve all your problems.
DeleteIt would be great if they make the Harvard to Homeless movie and show that to all the folks in Washington DC. The movie should get bonus interviews of students living at home with parents like myself, students/parents with massive debt, current college students who are worried, to parents of college students, recent graduates, or parents of juniors or seniors in high school wondering if their children will be experiencing what we are going through now in college, and more.
ReplyDeleteI had written to the President in September how I am unable to get a job. I still haven't gotten a response from him. There has been no change for me just the usual applying for jobs and wondering if I will ever get a job. The stress is tremendous for me and my family wonder if I will ever get a job knowing I worked so hard and I am stressed out from sending a billion applications everywhere.
It's easier for a camel to go through the eye of the needle than for recent college graduates to attain a job whether in government, private, or non profit organization. These organizations say they want new talent and such which they aren't aggressively hiring recent college graduates. I really feel sorry for those who just completely had given up the job search and go through depression, stress, hopelessness, etc. People don't understand what a toll it takes on people physically, mentally, spiritually, and how that impacts family as well seeing a family members getting laid off or recent graduates not getting jobs. The stress involving finances and so forth trying to survive. Although, I have ups and downs, I still apply to job because I want to be independent. I want to work. I feel that many of these organizations and politicians don't understand the situation that many people like myself face everyday. We want jobs related to our degrees. The Labor Bureau needs to stop making these statistics about unemployment because it does not accurately tell people how bad the situation is added those who are unemployed don't need to be told. We already feel bad enough.
I didnt know there were any others in a similar situation to mine. I'm effectively homeless, staying with various friends while desperately looking for work. No car, no job, and an education that is completely useless for the forseeable future. My student loan debt is keeping me from getting certain jobs, and my education is keeping me from getting others. The fact that I'm living in a state of forced transience is keeping me from getting the rest of the jobs i apply for. I have a degree in culinary arts. I'm a cook for crying out loud. I have no way of ever paying my 40,000+ student loans. I have no idea what to do.
ReplyDeleteI know a person who graduated from an Ivy League school with a law degree. This person had worked during college and after law school worked with a firm for a good number of years before becoming a U.S. Assistant Attorney. In the past, people could find law jobs and make transitions now it's very difficult to get a job. I did look into the federal jobs website for the U.S. Attorney position and wonder how can an entry-level even begin to get a job like that in the future knowing firms and such have cut back in hiring. How can a person gain experience if no one is willing to hire.
ReplyDeleteI have a friend who is currently a law student doing 2nd year and will owe about $200,000 in loans. My friend is very worried about what will happen after graduation. The only advice that I offered my friend is try to find jobs or temporary volunteer experiences related to law. I even recommended my friend to work for free at a court or a firm for sometime just to have something on the resume and network with people in the summer. I don't know what my friend will do, but even if you do network, apply to jobs, and such it's still very difficult to get employment no matter what you major in including those who do certificates who believe that completing the program will land them a job. We live in an ugly economy and don't believe what the news say, the economy stinks and the future is unpredictable.
Law school is a total scam, just don't do it.
ReplyDeletePresident Obama's Has Veterans Employment Initiative, but how about having Recent Graduates Initiative
ReplyDeletePresident Obama has prevented people from getting employment based on credentials/or education instead he wants every veteran and their spouses to land government jobs while college graduates will go to jobs that pay very little or be unemployed. Any law students out there should consider finding more about this initiative and see how it discriminates non vets like college students. It's something that should be taken to the Supreme Court because it is wrong to deny employment for favoring special interest groups. Veterans said they were discriminated now they discriminate non veterans due to this hiring initiative.
ReplyDeleteFederal and state government jobs have always been that way. Veterans first. People with the appropriate college degree major, second - MAYBE. Case in point: in the 90's I took the "civil service test" and scored 100 on it. It took me 6 months to hear from any government agency because that was WITHOUT "veterans' preference" which makes the total possible score 110. 100% is not good enough -- well it really wasn't back then. As I keep being reminded, "the 90's were a long time ago."
DeleteThat and, a lot of government jobs place more emphasis on full-time relevant work experience with supervisory references (no that Internship during your undergrad years doesn't count, sorry). If you do somehow manage to get the job based on your college degree, somewhere down the line it will come back to bite you in the butt that you didn't have enough relevant supervisory work references -- if not officially from HR, your co-workers will grill you nonstop because they will be people who have "worked their way up" with just a high school diploma. The one exception would be the scientists at the nuclear bomb lab in Los Alamos, NM.
I hate to say this, but President Obama's election as a Harvard/Columbia graduate and a minority (mestizo, not "black," by the way, even though the American Black community claims him as "their own" for some reason I can never quite figure out) has effectively made it so that no other Ivy League graduate with brown skin will ever get a job again. Now the world thinks we've achieved "equality" so no more felt need for tokenism (as has been in the past, at least a little bit) so there's MORE of this: the minute they see the color of the skin of the HYP graduate who somehow managed to make it to the interview stage, the door will figuratively slam in our faces, no reason given, no further communication allowed. (Ignored phone calls and voice mail messages, messages thrown in the trash, e-communication attempts deleted without reading them, etc.) Some of us out here campaigned for Clinton for a reason (besides being a fellow New Yorker and fellow Yalie, I mean).