Anyone who is as obsessed with ID television as I am knows that there are two motivations for murder (1) financial and (2) passion. In the case of John Wagner from Philadelphia--his reasons were likely both as it's speculated that he was driven to kills his mom and pops and self because of law school debts that prevented him from settling down. It makes sense to me. I just wish he directed some of that fire at the law school that he attended instead of his poor parents.
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The cockroach deans and "law professors" will chirp "He shouldn'y have been so greedy, and expected a $160K salary upon graduation."
ReplyDeleteWow, that's a sad story. I'm guessing he had mostly private loans, since IBR might have helped him if he had eligible federal loans. I agree with you, though, if your debt is outrageous, leave the country or do something else - anything else - but kill. I wonder what the suicide rate is for student debtors? Has anyone done any research?
ReplyDeleteTo be fair, he might not have killed his dad. But agree with the central point of the post.
ReplyDeleteI would blame the law school, not the parents. I am surprised that this does not happen more often. So many people are financially destroyed because of law school. Campos said he started writing about the law school scam, because one of his favorite law students committed suicide, when the student could not find a job.
ReplyDeleteContrast the plight of these indebted people to the lives of law prof, law deans, and college presidents making six and seven figure salaries.
There are many who make it after law school as well. Really it's better to have the education than not and not close off the possibilities of working out of the country. Let's face it sometimes things are really economically better on the other side of our borders.
DeleteHe should have killed some of those law school pigs.
ReplyDeleteRelative of a family friend is a Professor of Law at Stanford-- one of the very few remaining schools where job prospects are bright. And according to him, mental illness is one of the great unacknowledged problems at the law school.
ReplyDeleteWhy would even Stanford Law kids be at risk of going haywire? I believe part of it is the natural frustration experienced by very bright people who are subject to the phony-baloney hide-the-ball method of law school teaching, where material is deliberately confused and mystified (purportedly to train students' to be critical thinkers, but really to stretch out a few months worth of doctrine to fill three long years). And, of course, the needless and toxic competetiveness of law school, with its your-whole-future-is-riding-on-it once a semester exams where you have a couple of hours to spot and over-analyze a dozen issues from one preposterous story problem.
Now consider that pretty much every other school in the country is worse than Stanford, and if you dont go to Stanford or elsewhere in the T13, you have contend with a miserable "career" ub shitlaw, document review or, increasingly, no law job whatsoever. Three years spent earning a degree that costs one's self-respect for being scammed, the respect of family who don't understand that a JD is a scam degree, and the economic ability to start a family. And then the anger that comes from having to write a big check each month to pay back loans that went to support the lazy, arrogant, hypocritical, and often remarkably unqualified faculty who gave you three years of misery and that scam degree.
I graduated from Columbia Law. It's a scam too. Waste of time. Pile of debt higher than I can even appreciate and no jobs in site. You need a T13 and 75%+ scholarship to have law school worth it.
Delete@6:29 nailed it, sir/ma'am. Law degrees are worthless. I went to UCLA and I'm practically begging for a $40,000 job.
ReplyDeleteBegging for a $40,000 job, @6:03pm?
ReplyDeleteHell, I am just grateful for a $14,000 a year job after being unemployed for 7 months. And I speak several languages and had an extensive and excellent work history before law school.
Beggars can't be choosers and in this environment, every law grad is a beggar, big time. Thanks for the wonderful education, law school. I hope everyone even thinking about law school reads this and thinks long and hard.
I would blame the law school, not the parents. I am surprised that this does not happen more often. So many people are financially destroyed because of law school. Campos said he started writing about the law school scam, because one of his favorite law students committed suicide, when the student could not find a job.
ReplyDeleteContrast the plight of these indebted people to the lives of law prof, law deans, and college presidents making six and seven figure salaries.
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A couple of articles on student debt and suicide:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.mintpressnews.com/student-loan-debt-spurring-record-number-of-suicides/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/c-cryn-johannsen/student-loan-debt-suicides_b_1638972.html
Sometimes when a person has financial difficulties and he needs to do something of he is really in need he will do everything. But yes, you are right, do not kill yourself if you're frustrated. Do something better than that, you can only live once and living it to the fullest until our creator gets us, that is the only time you have to say good bye to your life. My bad credit jewelry financing company likes your blog so much. Thanks for sharing!
ReplyDeleteJust tragic. I will say I'm now in China teaching English (was teaching before, went to law school for one semester, saw the likely debt and returned to Asia). It's not for everyone, but it's a solution.
ReplyDeletePoor guy and tragic story. Blame it on the situation. But I guess, there is no point of killing yourself when having a problem. There is always a solution for every problem. I agree, he could have looked for a job and moved on.
ReplyDeleteThe entire thing is a damn scam, you would do better by investing in a MLM businesss(AMWAY,NONI), are spending money on the lottery. My sister graduated from a shit law school, evenvuatlly changed careers, went to school to become a registerd nurse, although she works two jobs as a nusre and has few hours to spend with family, she earned $123,000 last year not bad for someone living in a rural south Georgia town, she hopes to pay her student debt from law school off completely in 4 yaers.
ReplyDeleteI am astonished that this does not happen more regularly. Such a variety of individuals are fiscally annihilated in view of law school. Campos said he began expounding on the law school trick, since one of his most beloved law understudies conferred suicide, when the person can't discover work.
ReplyDeleteDude, if he had federal loans, then he just threw his life away for nothing. He could defer for three years if he did not have a job. He could have gone on IBR and, if his loan balance was still present after 20-25 years of working, it would have been forgiven. It's forgiven in 10 years working for government or non-profit. This stuff does not have to be law related and plenty of people with law degrees do other things. He still could have rented, bought a house, traveled, etc. Federal loans are not the end of the world. Also, he could still lower the payments under IBR and establish good credit as long as he paid on time.
ReplyDeleteI don't know much about private loans, but maybe he had those. Am I missing something though about federal loans? People say how law school debt is so bad, but do people realize the options federal loans bring if they go to school? Am I right or wrong?
You have to be kidding, right? No one forced him to go to law school. It is a choice. Like going to any graduate school. And no graduate degree comes cheap. And there are a lot of problems with that fact and the system overall. But to say that his choice to go to law school somehow makes it the school's fault that he killed his parents? That is outrageous.
ReplyDeleteIn fact, this whole blog is outrageous. Were you really that duped going into law school yourself? It sounds like you don't really want to take any responsibility for your life choices and don't think anyone else, like the guy above, should be held responsible for their choices either.
I do not mean to judge him as I know I don't have the right to. I, however, thought that what he did was awful. Ending his life and his parents' didn't solve the problem. If he only faced the problem head on, this tragedy wouldn't have happened and he might have even found a solution to his debt problem.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunate gentleman and shocking story. Attack it on the scenario. In any case I figure, there is no purpose of executing yourself when having an issue. There is dependably an answer for each issue. I concur, he could have searched for an occupation and proceeded onward.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure how far along he was in his legal studies but I'm sure there were other alternatives.
ReplyDeleteI'm not certain how far along he was in his lawful studies however I'm certain there were different options.
ReplyDeleteI am a retired lawyer. I quit bc even keeping myself inactive was expensive and i hate how as a lawyer i felt i did not have the freedom to walk away and pursue something else. I became inactive in 2002 I believe and started working on sets as a background artist. I worked over two years and became Union eligible. Actors Union. I started to plan what to do next. I wanted to train to do something on sets and knew the industry was heading to digital and web. But then i got cancer. I kept working on sets while starting to study to explore my options. I was finding my niche when i was being harassed on sets. I complained. I was tripped. Then told to come to set to be told i was on a list and then all casting stopped hiring me. I joined one union, was assaulted and resigned and joined the other. I started to file charges and was institutionalized by the Union bc apparently though mt bar number in Cali is 207690 im really not a lawyer. What is sad is lawyers wont help me. They want to make me practice since they have to im obligated. I spent ten years not working toward being a lawyer. I was blacklisted in a state where it is illegal. I should be Able to sue bit nope i have to get a job i woukd hate just as much as law, teaching or being a nanny. Im a girl so i cant work productionand im not alloeed to be around celebrity actors bci might make friends and work on sets again. I hav the former VP of HBO casting on my linkedin but im not allowed to work unless it is for the government,or what my parents would call my place in society. I was happy doing background. Im going to be.miserable for the rest of my life bcmy union took my rights to attend meetings and take classes at AFI yet im a legitimate member. If i knew i would not have rhe same rights as the rest of the US bc i went to law school i would not have gone. My dream was to be a set photographer and art director and actor. But im a girl who went to law school so i cant work unless i work with lawyers. Www.lauraanntull.artistichope.com
ReplyDeleteI have a law degree but im trained to shoot a dslr, use light room, after effects, premiere pro, photo shop and yet i get told i cant be on sets, cant be around my union members bc i think the legal community wont help me for jealous reasons, meanwhile i have a theater degree, master in performing arts management, and would feel like a prostitute if i ended up in bed with anyone not an actor bc id be with them only for their money. I could date wealthy men. Ive been pursued before, but i wanted a family to one where my kids are not told they have to be lawyers. I don't want a dinner party about politics but art. I dont like American men but i dont want to be a nanny or teach and im too old nor do i want to be a secretary. My typing sucks. I had a plan but apparently according to my father im committing a fraud bci went to law school so i must practice. I wont work unless i can be on sets and know i can fight to act period. Id have my own place by now if my father had trusted my ability to know what was best for me. I needed to stay on sets in background to network into jobs i wanted. I have no intere in pay checks bc i chose to survive cancer bc i loved being onset. And i want my reputation back on sets and for my union to pay for hurting my career goals by taking away my rights. Ive even been told i coukd do voice over but my emails been messed with, my twitter and none of it is constitutional.
ReplyDeleteI don't think teaching in China would have helped him any. My sister (lawyer) said law school was 3 years long because it took them that long to steal your soul! :-)
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure how far along he was in his legal studies but I'm sure there were other alternatives.
ReplyDeleteGo teach English in Hungary. The women are HOT, the men are WELL HUNG, and the government is corrupt enough to give you a passport in a few years. You'll be an EU citizen and in 20 years able to retire on the French coast.
ReplyDeleteOkay, no condoning what he did at all! Please don't kill yourself. If you feel depressed about your financial situation, go teach English in China, Family Law go be a nanny is Norway... just leave it all behind and start anew somewhere else.
ReplyDelete