Here's the info off of their website:
The accurate, independently verified data for the class of 2014’s Law School Admission Test (LSAT) scores and grade point averages (GPA) are as follows: median LSAT, 163; median GPA, 3.70. Information originally posted on the College of Law website last month inaccurately listed the median LSAT score as 168 and the median GPA as 3.81.
This is a curious development. For a while now, as the economy has tanked, the law schools' GPA/LSAT stats have increased as the lemmings have flooded in with nothing better to do. I always took this trend to mean that students who would be better served entering the work force cannot find jobs, thereby artificially inflating the stats of law schools. Let's be frank, when I went to law school, a 160 was a golden ticket to most law schools. I received a scholarship with that LSAT score and a 3.767 GPA (but a 4.0 in my major, toot!). Today, I don't think I could get into my alma mater, let alone score a scholarship. You really don't need more to pass the bar--which I did on my first try. Now, with this lie, I'm thinking the lemmings--the smartest in the bunch--have heeded the warnings and decided to stay away. Therefore, the stats have gone down.
What do you think about this?
Posts
I think people are catching on. Slowly. But, yes, they're catching on. Someone said that if you repeat a lie enough people will start to believe it. The same is true for the truth. Either way it takes people a while to know who to trust, and that's especially so when the people telling the truth are those left out in the cold. When you've lost something ("A BIG hand"), as I have (and I would imagine lots of your readers have), it takes people a while to discern what your motivation is, because the one that's most apparent doesn't make you seem very trustworthy. But, ultimately, when you're message is consistent - as it tends to be when you're just repeating true facts - people start to look past the easy explanation of your apparent bitterness, despite the fact that all the trolls have come out to dance and sing their oompaloompa songs.
ReplyDelete11:47 nailed it. The same "principle" holds for the truth.
ReplyDeleteIllinois - similar to Villanova - played the game and was caught in the act. I have noticed that GPAs and LSAT scores continue to improve. Perhaps, this is due to the increased hours studying for the idiotic test. Plus, students KNOW that they need great scores to gain admittance to top-flight schools. (I knew a guy who scored a 180; he chose Boston University over Duke. I suppose the former threw a bunch of money at him.)
Has anyone here seen the old "logic" portion, from exams. Those were cake, i.e. "Put the following words in reverse alphabetical order: wxney, wneyx, nxwey, ynwxe, ynxew."
"For a while now, as the economy has tanked, the law schools' GPA/LSAT stats have increased as the lemmings have flooded in with nothing better to do. I always took this trend to mean that students who would be better served entering the work force cannot find jobs, thereby artificially inflating the stats of law schools."
ReplyDeleteYet they didn't flood the law schools. In 2009 and 2010 there was barely any increase in applicants as opposed to 2004. Part of the problem is that starting in 2006, the law schools started counting applicants' highest LSAT scores rather than averaging them. This shifts median law school LSAT scores higher.
The fact is, if there's a drop in applicants, then there's a drop in LSAT scores. If the law schools' keep saying that their students' are getting high scores despite there being fewer of them, then they're probably lying.
I think at this point most people realize that universities lie about statistics and job placement. This doesn't exist only in law school but generally applies to undergraduate and most professional schools with the exception of medicine. I know of several people who graduate from architecture school and the unemployment there is even greater than law school grads with the architecture programs still promoting high graduating salaries and rosy career prospects post graduation. I think the moral is that people need to take personal responsibility and not be so naive as to think school will guarantee them continuous and immediate employment. It's unfortunate to get "scammed", but after it's done, people need to move on. It's really a waste of personal energy and time to keep harping on what wrong. The system is too entrenched now to probably change much about it due to people needing to go to school and feel like they're making some progress due to the fact that structural employment is making it almost impossible for them to work and get jobs otherwise.
ReplyDeleteat 2:28:
ReplyDeleteI would love to move on but I have a huge student loan payment every month to remind me that I was scammed. No job either.
I would love to contact my law school, give them my license and let those assholes pay it off. I have already paid 60K toward the debt. I won't even ask for reimbursement for those monies. They can just pay off what I owe, I will never practice law again (like it will happen anyway) and we can all move on.
3:14 -
ReplyDeleteYou borrowed the money and spent it on yourself.
No one promised you a job. You gambled and lost. If you think you were "scammed", then seek redress via legal action.
In the meantime, pay your debts like a real grownup...or don't and enjoy the consequences.
at 6:18:
ReplyDeleteThis is the same asshole who keeps posting on the other blogs. The message and writing style are the same. Tell you what, pal. Why don't you reveal yourself so we can have a candid discussion face to face?
Most of us do want to pay back what we owed, we just want what is fair. I bet you have never been laid before. You probably sit at home eating baby shit.
lol. Baby shit. That's a hoot!
ReplyDeleteI really cannot see this student loan debt bubble going much longer. This scam is similar to subprime mortgages. It only works as long as the payments are made and the prices keep rising. Eventually something fails in the system and causes other dominos to fall over.
ReplyDeleteIn this student loan bubble, it will be a critical mass of defaults. Someone is taking the hit on the defaults. Either the government or the loan owner. Those loans are CDOs owned by someone. If they are not getting their money, then they are not really AAA bonds.
If the investors cease buying the bonds that are financing the student loan bubble, then a lot of people won't be going to school one of these years.
What happens then?
20% of the expected students cancel their enrollment.
State funding doesn't cover the difference.
Universities start spending their endowments (if they have them) to make up the difference. Lower end schools start laying off professors and cutting class offerings.
I don't know when it will happen, but it seems likely from my amateur POV.
"No one promised you a job. You gambled and lost."
ReplyDeleteThis is a completely dishonest way to frame it. Based on law school stats, law school students certainly did not consider attending to be "gambling". I mean schools were claiming stuff like 99% employment and 80k average salaries which were totally bogus and manipulated data.
If 0Ls were told or given the real odds and went anyway, then yes, they were "gambling". But since they were given a much more optimistic picture of prospects, they saying 0Ls were "gambling" is entirely unjustified.
If I had actually gambled and lost, I would have discharged my losses in bankruptcy about 3 years ago.
ReplyDeleteThanks for trying, but please select a different moral line.
What's interesting is that these glitches are always to the benefit of the law schools. They always Overstate the number of graduates with jobs, the LSAT scores and GPAs of admitted students, etc.
ReplyDeleteSo... "oops, we're easier to get into than you thought! Please apply!"
ReplyDeleteDo they be securitizin' them loanz too? Interessing' to know who dat buying up dem securitized loan school loan poolz? Beuller? Anyone?
ReplyDeleteOnce they were caught, the University of Illinois Law School admited that the average LSAT of their 2014 class was 163, not 168 as they had previously published on their website. Interestingly, the Law School Numbers website relates that Illinois claimed its class of 2009 average LSAT was 166. So this "upgrading" of their entering scores may not just be a one time event.
ReplyDeleteHere's something that might cheer you all up - as bad as the job market is for Law students, it's even worse for architecture grads! There aren't any pissed off architecture grad blogs yet though, I suppose because many law students expect to get a good salary while designers would probably design for free because they love the work so much. And many are designing for free - "unpaid internships," the new normal.
ReplyDeleteStop whinning scumbag lawyer.
ReplyDelete