I want to pass along a message I received from Florida Coastal School of Law (FCSL). Please feel free to post this analysis on BIDER as an example of how ludicrous this school is for charging students a fortune for a clearly substandard product. It would be good to save prospective FCSL students from financial disaster and heartache.
Text from the e-mail:
"Coastal Law provides a joint degree program with the Davis College of Business at Jacksonville University (JU), the only AACSB accredited private business school in all of North Florida and South Georgia. This program allows students to enroll in the Coastal Law J.D. and the Davis MBA courses simultaneously and they often earn both degrees one year earlier than if pursued separately.
Learn more about our JD/MBA joint program here: www.fcsl.edu/academics/jdmba
I would like to tell you more about Florida Coastal- please reply to this email or call me on my direct line at (904) [xxx-xxxx]"
Bottom-Tier
FCSL is a bottom-tier school in a state that has at least 10 law schools. I know that US News and World Report school rankings have flaws, but a school probably isn't that great if it lands in the bottom tier.
High Costs
0Ls should be wary of scholarship offers from this school. An online search of the school's name and the word "scholarship" indicates that many students lose their scholarships after 1L. A recent NY Times article covered this type of phenomenon, but at some other schools. According to US News, 91 percent of the class of 2010 took on debt for FCSL, and the average amount for those debtors was $120,410 (http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/grad-debt-rankings/page+2).
Few Benefits
Meanwhile, the class of 2010's average starting salary was only $48,615, with less than one third of graduates reporting. The low response rate means that it is possible that the true average is even lower, assuming that graduates with lower salaries may be less likely to report their salaries than graduates with higher salaries. More information can be found at https://www.fcsl.edu/sites/fcsl.edu/files/ERSS%20Class%20of%202010%20Statistics.pdf.
The MBA joint degree offering does not change the conclusion that the FCSL JD is not worth getting. In the MBA world, in general, there is a significant weakening of employment outcomes as one moves from a top business school to a middle-of-the-pack school to a lowly-ranked school.
In summary, it doesn't take an MBA to do a business analysis and conclude that Florida Coastal School of Law is a bad investment of time, money, and energy.
*****************
I, for one, haven't heard of this shit hole. If I haven't heard of it, don't go. Also, if it has a buzz word in it--like "coastal"--it's obviously a trick. They are trying to attract the beach bum/swimming/fishing types. All of the best school are in shitty, cold, locations. Or they're in the middle of nowhere.
Also, if I haven't said my rule of thumb in the past, I'll say it here. The total amount of your debt should be equal to your salary the first year that you graduate. At FC, you debt load could be $120,000. However, your starting salary will be (if you're lucky) $48,000. That's bad economics. You will be broker than you were when you sold lemonade in your front yard for $1.50 a pop. You actually can't even conceive of the poverty you will suffer. You will look at homeless people with envy because they don' have bills. Trust me on this one.
Posts
I can think of a couple of bottom tier law schools worth going to. Are there any stand alone law schools in tiers 1 or 2? I don't believe there are.
ReplyDeleteFlorida Coastal is the turd that keeps floating to the top, even after being flushed several times. It is part of Infilaw Corp, which owne Phoenix Law School and Charlotte Law School, as well.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.infilaw.com/schools.htm
See how stringent the ABA is, in accrediting U.S. law schools?!?!
I think the ABA is full of shit. Another bunch of asswipes that need to control an important part of our lives.
DeleteI'd like to know how some of you think of that Kaplan Law School.
Personally? I'm considering going to the Gilligan School of Law. Where else can I hear and see the Professor discuss about Mary-Ann and Ginger? ;-)
I am proud to say that I graduated from Florida Coastal in December 2006. Prior to attending FCSL, I worked as a paralegal in NYC for 8 years. I decided to go to law school which was a natural continuum for my career. My goal was to have my own boutique law practice.
DeleteIn New York, at the time I decided to go to law school, out of school for 8 years, it was impossible to get into a top tier law school especially in light of the “.com” boom. Also, as a thirty year old, I was forced with the reality of paying for my own legal education and quite simply, FCSL was a fraction of the cost of any NY law school. In fact, with an earned scholarship, I have already paid off all my student loans. And I promise you that is the truth!!
Moving to Florida was a nice change from the harsh dark winters in the Northeast. I bought a house where I lived and studied. I met great people in school and out. My commute was by car and not by ferry and train. To be honest, Florida was a perfect escape from the rat race and chaos of NYC.
In pursuit of my goal, I was driven, studied hard and graduated a semester early. I was focused on a goal and all I needed was a JD to achieve it. Through FC, I was able to attain it.
I don’t understand all the negativity. I always had the attitude, go out and get it. Don’t blame a school. Self-evaluate as to what it is that you are doing wrong. I can’t see how having a law degree can hurt anyone.
I have to attest that FC prepared me incredibly for trials. I have worked alongside many NY and NJ graduates who tremble at the thought of going into a courtroom, let alone, doing a trial. I was also on Moot Court which was no joke. It also prepared me to write and win my own appeals.
Lastly, I have to laugh because I am at the same closings and in the same courtroom, working on the same cases, as another attorney who may or may not have attended a Top Tier or whatever law school. I took the same NY bar as they did and passed on the first try, thanks to the bar prep I received while at FC.
People, life is what you make of it!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Set goals and then make the sacrifices to achieve them. I did and I am exactly where I want to be in life.
Stop wasting your time on being negative, ranting, and blaming a school. Be positive and motivate, don’t hate.
Jeannette Poyerd-Loiacono
Law Office of Jeannette Poyerd-Loiacono, PLLC
This comment has been removed by the author.
Delete"the only AACSB accredited private business school in all of North Florida and South Georgia."
ReplyDeleteHere's another rule of thumb: if your school has to brag that it's "the only accredited [x] school in ALL of [y]," avoid at all costs unless [y] is a state name and you want to live in said state for a long time.
If being the only law school in northern Florida, the Texas panhandle, orange county, etc. is a first-paragraph selling point, it's the sign of a real waste.
Brooklyn Law is in either Tier 1 or Tier 2, and is might a decent school, though plenty of people supposedly graduate from there unemployed for life. Not sure how true that is and to what extent.
ReplyDeleteAs for all good schools being in cold "shitty" climates or middle of nowhere, I believe Stanford is either ranked #2 or #3 most of the time. I guess maybe also UC-Berkeley. Texas is also a relatively high ranked school.
That being said, yea, I'd stay away from the bottom tier schools.
I graduated from Florida Coastal a year ago in the top 25 percent of my class, and am now working for Goldman Sachs in NYC making over 300K a year, so clearly, the investment banking industry has a great deal of respect for Florida Coastal. Also, two of my fellow Florida Coastal classmates landed jobs at Goldman Sachs.
ReplyDeleteDoubtful.
DeleteI can believe it. Florida Coastal isnt a bad school. Yes it isnt Florida or Miami but it still a law school. Except it for what it is. If you did not do the work to get into a great school do not complain about getting into a good school.
DeleteThe only problem I do have with the above is why the Anonymity? Tell us who you are so we can check to see that you are telling the truth.
DeleteMoreover, you also do not point out what other credentials you may or may not have had to get your $300K job.
Someone in the top 25% (not even top 5! LOL) from a school whose accreditation is dubious at best landed an offer of over $300K from Goldman? Come on guys, don't be that gullible. This was obviously posted by someone affiliated with this steaming turd of a school.
DeleteI believe InfiLaw actually pays folks to come to blogs and post this kind of shit. There is a hilarious post on Above the Law right now about the dean that was kicked off campus mid-speech for pointing out the scam that is FCSL. The comments section has a few people that are obv. working for the turd of a school. Wonder if they count towards the employment statistics reported to the ABA?
Deleteto the march 27th comment. I don't know how you use your law degree but it's definitely not in grammar. "Except" try "Accept". Makes sense now.
DeleteAs a legal recruiter for eight years and a former practicing attorney, I can safely say that keeping the following three things in mind will save you loads of frustration and disenchantment about your prospects throughout your legal career:
ReplyDelete1. The US News law school ranking may be arbitrary and flawed, but they are generally considered the authority for such rankings. If a lower-tiered law school rep attempts to tell you something different, they are full of crap and they know it.
2. Got to the highest ranked law school you can get into. If a public law school comes a close second and is much cheaper, consider that as well. While there are always exceptions to the rule, generally the best case scenario for someone who goes to a fourth(and in many cases, third)-tier law school (even if it is on scholarship) is a job with a top firm in the city where the law school resides and only if that person finished at or near the top of the class. If you look to move to another city, you'll get turned away by top firms there more often than not merely because no one will want to champion someone from a non-brand law school to their colleagues. It's heartbreaking to hear that when you know the person is talented and could have done well at a brand law school, but it happens more often than you realize. Just look at the rosters of these firms to realize how much they value some law schools over others. As for the Goldman Sachs guys, congrats on your situation but I venture to guess that you got your jobs based on other credentials and in spite of the fact that you went to Florida Coastal. At a law school like Florida Coastal, you are truly the exception rather than rule in terms of what a Florida Coastal law degree will yield (especially in this economy).
3. Whereever you end up going to law school, don't worry about much other than your coursework during the first year. A great first year will set you so much further ahead as you launch your career (even with a terrible second and third year) than someone who has a terrible first year but a stellar second and third year.
Hope you find this helpful. Again, while there are exceptions to these rules and it is possible to succeed in spite of them, it is just not probable IMO.
Is it possible to transfer to another law school from Florida Coastal after the first year?
DeleteThe ABA meets in August to consider accrediting a foreign law school:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.law.com/jsp/tal/PubArticleFriendlyAL.jsp?id=1202494858380
"Lehman has long hoped to make the Peking University School of Transnational Law (STL) the first law school outside the United States to be accredited by the ABA, which would allow its graduates to take the bar exam in any U.S. state."
ABA is such a joke!
DeleteThere aren't enough jobs for our own here in the good ol' US, we have to allow outsiders?
WTF???
"I graduated from Florida Coastal a year ago in the top 25 percent of my class, and am now working for Goldman Sachs in NYC making over 300K a year"
ReplyDeleteAnd you even have free-time for blogs! Care to give any evidence for your claims?
I can promise you Goldman Sachs would not hire a Florida Costal graduate.
DeleteJust because someone is an attorney and landed a fantastic job does not mean that they do not have a life. For goodness sakes they are in front of a computer all day! Get over yourself
DeleteI doubt this is true!
DeleteI attended Florida Coastal and withdrew at end of first year. Two of my Profs were outstanding (Prop and Crim), two were useless (Torts and Cont). It came down to finances for me and and I could not make the math work. 3 years, no work, approx living and tuition 45k per year, then starting salary in the 60k range. I owned two successful businesses while in school and realized Lawyers need me, not the other way around. Also, Law was overwhelmingly negative - nothing was ever created or built, just torn apart. My two cents.
ReplyDeleteOkay, if you define "success" as working 80-100 hours a week in a "Big Law" Firm that that crushes your soul and takes credit for everything you do, then I guess you should give a crap how high the school is ranked. I prefer to call that vision "hell" because I think it's more appropriate.
ReplyDeleteI am fluent in Spanish, Florida is an immigrant state and I want to open my own practice straight out of law school. Florida Coastal would be great for what I am wanting to do.
FCSL: If you are in top 5% school is free on merit scholarship automatically and you're on law review. Top 10% half of school is paid for automatically. If everyone was bums they wouldn't do that. Numerous students with high LSAT scores come in on full and partial rides. The school teaches less policy crap and gives you the actual tools needed to actually practice; you are taught to litigate, orally argue, and write very well. Study all the time, like a job, and you can be in top 5% or 10%--if you are not an idiot to begin with. You'll have plenty of OCI's and employment opportunities with great firms if in top 10% of class. Maybe a gamble for some but not the motivated. Professors are good, many are great with pedigrees that match any schools faculty. One from Colombia says he grades harder at FCSL that at higher tier he came from. Good, weeds out those "bums." Top schools respect the program: I was accepted to numerous 1st tier top 50 and top 100 law schools for transfer opportunities after being in top 3% after 1L year--but with students from law schools like BU suing their law school 'cause they can't find a job after graduation--I opted to stay at FCSL--and get school done for free. No pedigree is worth a ton of debt if you ask me. Also the wife loves jax, has great job, and my dog loves the beach! Additionally, no income taxes in florida lets you keep your money. In any case the way to reduce the number of lawyers or number of low standard law schools--isn't to bash the schools--it is simply to have the gov't stop subsidizing higher education! Just like any graduate (or undergraduate) program in any field--losers go because they don't want to live in the real world and they can make their neighbors pay for their life style choice/schooling via grants and subsidized college loans. Stop subsidizing higher ed and overnight the quality of all schools increases, only motivated students will go, and tuition rates will drop massively--as the gov't won't be bidding up the prices anymore by subsidizing tuition!
ReplyDeleteI worked at FCSL and know for a fact that the students are sold a bill of goods. From an economic standpoint, it is not worth it. The top 5% of the students get decent jobs. The rest do not. And the bar passage rates have been dropping steadily. So BUYER beware!!
ReplyDeleteThe salutatorian last year cannot get a job. A lot of my friends who went to other, "better" law schools (FSU and UF) are unemployed as well.
Delete"It's the economy, stupid!"
FCSL is a classic bait and switch school from day one. They lure you in with "scholarships" that are designed to be taken away. They make the subject matter so difficult that not even a Harvard Grad could keep their scholarship there. They paint a rosy picture by touting their bar-pass rate and "employed" grads. What they don't tell you is a law grad, for instance, counts as “employed” even if he or she has a job that doesn’t require a law degree. Waiting tables at Applebee’s? You’re employed. Stocking aisles at Home Depot? You’re working, too. Avoid this overpriced sewer pit as if your life depended on it. IT IS A SCAM!!!
ReplyDeleteI am guessing that you are speaking from experience? Just because you flunked out does not mean everyone else will too. Discipline and Confidence is necessary to graduate from the school two elements i am assuming you did not have.
DeleteFCSL and CSL are TOTAL SCAMS. ANYONE WHO SAYS DIFFERENTLY IS LIKELY WORKS FOR ONE OF THE SCHOOLS.
DeleteI go here an have gained amazing legal experience and have secured employment over fsu and uf students
DeleteI go to CSL, am in the to 10% of my class, and have had amazing experiences my 1L year. The community is accepting of CSL students in both NC and SC. It seems to me, and in most cases, those who bash things are usually those who are angry at the wrong thing. Maybe the reason you are so against FCSL and CSL is because you couldn't make it as a student....
DeleteMmm, a scam? It's what you make of the opportunity and that's what FCSL afforded me. I'm a success story, is the school expensive, yes, education top rate, yes, faculty top rate, yes. I graduauted FCSL in 2000 after having graduated FSU in 1995. I know of many successful attorneys including myself who have graduated from FCSL and employers more than happy to hire FCSL grads. I passed the Bar on the first attempt with flying colors and have been a solo practicioner ever since. Don't beleive the sour milk and hype from those who do not accept their own personal responsibility. Just who are all these folks with sour grapes and axes to grind? Go FCSL.
DeleteThis is purely a pathetic rant against Florida Coastal. Seems as if all the people who took individual responsibility for their futures while in law school don't have time to blog.
ReplyDeleteThe student life on this campus is superior to many schools. The facilities are night and day with all your "top-tier" law schools. The professors are over-qualified because the school can pay them. Also, if you put in the time and study, you will get monetary incentives that make your law school expense next to nothing. Also, Florida Coastal teaches a practical approach, through clinics and externships, rather than a purely theoretical approach.
Keep on blaming everyone but yourself. Pathetic blog you posted above... You probably did lose your scholarship.
Are you still at Florida coastal? There seems to be a lot of ranting on here about the school. My guess is some of them failed to make it through the 3 years? If you don't work it doesn't matter where you go, you are not going to make it, and you will drop out. Then I guess it's the fault of the school!!
DeleteWe were looking at the school yesterday.
FCSL and CSL are TOTAL SCAMS. ANYONE WHO SAYS DIFFERENTLY IS LIKELY WORKS FOR ONE OF THE SCHOOLS.
DeleteWatch your prejudice. There is nothing wrong with a bottom tier school if you don't mind having a bottom tier career or no career at all.
ReplyDeleteOne of the hidden treasures is the prejudice faced by non-traditional students who graduate and pass the bar exam in FL. Florida Board of Bar examiners, headed by a woman with only a Bachelors degree in psychology from a backwater school in Georgia AND IS NOT A LAWYER, has seen fit to attack FCSL graduates with endless harassment and attendance at an "investigative hearing" over minor civil matters.
The FL Board of Bar Examiners writes articles about "normative" student profiles and a guy named Pobjecky, has concluded that any non-traditional students are prone to dishonest behavior. So if you are a minority, black, or older, you are getting an invitation.
So these losers have singled out the bottom tier schools in FL and harass the graduates and hold them hostage for additional fees to attend a farce called an investigative hearing. There is no investigation.
They do no investigation whatsoever, they just go after these students at the bottom tier programs. U of F gets a virtual pass but of course they don't take non-traditional students.
Further, 90% of the invitees are older males and virtually any with just a business background get dragged in front of a committee of three losers. None of them are familiar with your case and its all just a money making scam for these crapheads. Its unbelievable.
The taint of FCSL goes far beyond student loans, fakey scholarships, and inferior teaching. The FL Board of Bar examiners is blocking these students out of pure built in prejudice. The School knows it.
Even if the bar pass rate is acceptable for FCSL which it is, the FBBE is just whacking the non-traditional student body. So its not just the school but a concerted effort by the FBBE to poison the pond with their own prejudice after a student has worked hard and passed the bar exam.
I went to one of these hearings and it was crawling with FCSL bar passers and it was mostly all males. What a filthy FL Board. The school never tells its many non-traditional and older students that they will ultimately face a hostile FBBE because of their male sex, older age, second career, or any aspect which makes their resume "out of the normative ranges" subscribed to by Pobjecky and the female director with no advanced degrees. The whole point of being an American is individuality not conformity to type.
I don't know which is worse, the FCSL diploma mill or the FBBE built in prejudice against the FCSL bar passers. Its obscene all the way around. I was told by my attorney that the FBBE has a burr up its tail because FCSL is the only for-profit school in FL.
I am now back home in California and all I can think about is my hatred for Florida scum and the Southern Fried phonies that have so grossly mislead students about the reality of the prejudice against FCSL.
You are treated like a criminal. Somebody needs to investigate the FBBE and check the disproportionate number of FCSL bar passers that have to ante up another $250 bucks to a committee of jerk offs. The school knows this and they never disclose it. So its one more anchor to consider for a class action suit.
I graduated from FCSL and have a decent job, although the school had nothing that. The school has decent professors and facilities but it's extremely overcrowded. I felt like the school did a good job preparing me for the bar exam, although it was purely for their own gain. The only thing FCSL can do for you is provide you with a JD, after that they become a hurdle that you must overcome to land a job. There is simply way too many clowns at the school. I've never seen so many tattoos, piercings, "flatbills",ed hardy, etc. in my life....."is that kid a coke deal or my study partner?". I benefited from the school but I think I'm a rare exception to the average tatted up wigger graduating with +$150,000 in debt only to move back into his parents basement and play xbox all day while the bills start to pile up.
ReplyDeleteJust want to add to the hate here. FCSL is a rip. I found the student body to be a mildly diverse group (mostly younger males, many females, some minorities and hardly any blacks). Most, if not all, were motivated to be there (anyone about to take on over 100k in debt has to be). However, it is in no way worth the cost I paid for it (shitty teachers, unreasonable grading, over crowded classes, an academic success department that does not know its armpit from its asshole, and no constructive criticism). I am fortunate to only spend one year there, but unfortunate that the school put such a bad taste in my mouth for the study of law and the profession in general. I was accepted into other ABA schools but was stupid to have refused them. Now I resent the monopoly the ABA has over legal education and their decision to back one of the greediest institutions in the U.S. Hooray for the top 5% who get a brake. You are a perfect microcosm of our society and what is wrong with it, an oligarchy that is only out to make a buck and exploit everyone else in the process. I would be on board for any class action suits against FCSL.
ReplyDeleteYou spelled "brake" wrong... I think you meant "break."
DeleteThis is an absolute LIE. The students body at Coastal is very diverse (one of the top ABA schools for diversity). Why do people post lies?
DeleteYep, FCSL is a teeth-buster, and Yale or Harvard grads would likely flunk out as proportionate to the typical student body. I have heard FCSL has only 2 greater teeth-buster as to its curve. Coastal will dismiss w/o a blink should the students not perform well. Certainly not a pass-fail law school, but overall, excellent opportunity for non-crybabies who want to be attorneys.
DeleteAs a second year student at FCSL, I feel my opinion is one with some authority. First, as for the hiring rate, I have no information. Maybe that many grads are unemployed, or under-employed, however; the unemployment rate throughout the nation is pretty dismal. Secondly, I agree that the curriculum is incredibly difficult. I personally lost a partial scholarship, yet I feel absolutely fortunate to have been faced with such a daunting challenge. Better to loose the scholarship now, but gain the benefit of a superior education. If Harvard grad would find the material I survived to be difficult, then all the better are my prospects for kicking their asses in the court room! The professors are truly qualified. Some seem to be less than stellar in the eyes of a few, but those "few" are likely those who were incapable of raising to the challenges and learning the analytical skills, study habits, and problem solving that follow as benefits in the "real world". I am also active duty military, and an enlisted man. I had only a GED, and an unknown undergrad "pedigree", yet FCSL gave ME a chance, and I have learned and grown in remarkable ways. Yes, it is tough, but it must be to really challenge the bright minds who apply to law school. Yes the material is difficult, but what better way to stimulate true mental growth, while at the same time weeding out those who simply CAN not or (more likely) WILL not put forth the effort. Those who do, grow. Yes, the school is expensive, but the long hour, well stocked, and well staffed library is not free. The facilities are not donated, and require maintenance. Yes the professors are tough, but they are there to provide the map, YOU must make the journey. Those who complain are likely the same individuals who have never figured out how to put forth 110% effort, or are simply not capable of doing so. Personally, I do NOT want my hand held. I rather enjoy knowing that I was thrown into the river, and told to either swim, or drown. I have grown.
ReplyDeleteThank you for saying it. Someone needed to. No one can get mad at the results they did get from the work they did not do.
DeleteCharles - I am not a student there. But I must say youre comment sounds very honest.
DeleteMy only critique is when one is thrown in the river, most may drown bec they do not know from swimming and need to be taught. Law school may not be easy because many may not know what is involved. I was pre-law almost 10 years ago and I can tell you what my professor told me. What I went through (meaning pre-law) was a watered down version of law school. To prove his point, he told the class they were to be quizzed on a section of CPL. That section was longer than the Bible. I could barely memorize it or even understand the in-depth legalese. I said screw it - if I fail so be it. My luck he didn't mention it whatsoever. I think he was just making a point and he truly did.
My kid got roped into doing the AAMPLE program. He Worked his tuchus off to cover the $1500 fee, and studied dutifully for the tests at the end of the program. Then, after the final test, he got what looked like a form letter (to me) from FCSL that stated his 'grade' was x.xx (a grade too low for entrance) and there was no path for disputing the results. I had him carry a surveillance DVR pen to the test, and he scanned the paper, before he handed it in, and I reviewed the video, and his answers to the questions. If I was grading it I would say he got about an 85%.
ReplyDeleteIt is clear that AAMPLE is a legal scam to separate people from their money. No way to dispute!! That is like saying give me your money and get lost.
He was in touch with 5 other students from the same AAMPLE class and 4 of them got the same form letter each with either the same or similar shortfall grade. The fifth has a parent who is an attorney (and a multi-millionaire). So go figure.
So if you are reading this avoid AAMPLE and seek out a reputable school. It is apparent FCSL is a money grab.
so you had your kid break the rules before he even got into school? good he shouldn't be an attorney bringing recording devices into tests.
DeleteIf you had a student scan the AAMPLE test, can you say what the topic was? I actually know the topics tested and I KNOW you are lying. Sorry you flunked out.
DeleteI entered Coastal through the AAMPLE Program. The content is hard but once you take your first Contracts, or Civ Pro exam you will realize why it is done that way. Also you get your money back if you pass. If you do the work the program is essentially free.
DeleteAdditionally your student was doing something illegal so he should not have been granted admission.
Hi I am considering application to the AAMPLE program but I continue to read many negative things about it. I wish someone would post the truth. I heard the program is very hard and in some cases that the grading system is not a "fair" one. What can you tell me about it? How are you doing so far? Thank you.
DeleteI can tell you from first-hand experience that AAMPLE is a legitimate program and the allegations made by this individual are simply false. It's designed to give individuals whose LSAT scores may not be indicative of their ability to demonstrate they have the skills to be successful in law school. It's not easy, but is manageable. I find it sad the act of the student illicitly copying the final exam and the poster stating they could grade it at 85% is questionable, unless they're an attorney. AAMPLE is run fairly and is a true test of one's ability to be successful in law school.
DeleteFCSL is backed by a private equity firm. Hence, the school is driven by profit. Accept more students, receive more tuition dollars, and give huge dividends to investors. The institution was merely set up to make money. Blame the ABA for approving such a school, rather than the smart guys that set up the profit driven vehicle. Oh yea, I am also a graduate of FCSL and like most of you guys, mad as hell. However, I will not waste my time ranting about how FCSL ripped me off. I will use my knowledge gained to offset my loss. I suggest you do the same.
ReplyDeleteHow did they rip you off??
DeleteI graduated from FCSL in 2010 and now run my own law practice in Jacksonville and am doing very well. I'd recommend the school to anyone if it fit their goals and lifestyle (it doesn't pretend to be a top-tier school, but it is a solid school for those looking for what it offers). The venom here likely comes from underachieving self-entitled idiots who don't want to work hard to earn their keep in this world. Pathetic.
ReplyDeleteAs Billy Joel would say...you maybe right/I may be crazy....What was your final ranking when you did finally graduate?
DeleteSometimes its not about the hard work...its about what happened to the results of that hard work.
I am currently a student at FCSL. I started reading all of these posts in hopes that there would be some positive testimony regarding FCSL's ranking. It is my uneducated, perhaps misinformed contention that FCSL is ranked in the 4th tier (at the bottom) because they are a fairly new school with little to no tradition. My reason for this assumption was mainly formulated from information I received regarding passing rates for the bar, employment rates, my own observations of the facilities and curriculum, and the success of our moot court team.(supposedly we beat top schools such as Harvard consistently)
ReplyDeleteHowever, while reading through all of the posts I found mostly snide remarks and negative testimony of how terrible this school is, as well as how much of a scam it is. The preponderance of these posts explicitly state that they are, or were, students of FCSL and I think it is reasonable to assume that a great deal of the posts that do not explicitly state they are or were students, are in fact either current or previous students at FCSL.
What is humorous about that is the fact that these people, who are obviously current or previous students of FCSL, are trashing the school in regards to the grading curve and loss of scholarships. Meanwhile they are posting these opinions (facts?) using misspelled words, incorrect punctuation, and even unclear or incomplete sentences.
I just find it difficult to give credibility to anyone who makes a claim that it is all the schools fault that they were unable to succeed (in school or the "real world") when they cannot even write a coherent, grammatically correct post.
With all that said, I am still unclear as to EXACTLY WHY FCSL is at the bottom of the 4th tier. Can someone please explain to me like I am a six year old how the rankings work? Why does FCSL have such a bad reputation? Are the people at a tier 2 or tier 3 school receiving a better education than I am? Any other relevant information would also be appreciated.
Thank you for your time and my apologies to anyone I may have offended.
Your rebuke of other posters for grammar and punctuation errors loses some of its teeth when I count at least five grammatical and punctuation errors in your own post.
DeleteCan you please specifically point out the 5 grammatical and punctuation errors?
DeleteI'm a 2nd year English grad student, and I can tell you that the person above is wrong, most likely because they think they understand grammar, but ultimately do not; there was only one grammatical error that I found in your post: In the last paragraph, there should be commas enclosing the clause "like I am a six year old." With that being said, I am currently considering FCSL for my future law education and I found your post to be one of the most insightful, unbiased, and well-articulated ones on this page. I appreciate the information.
DeleteTIER 4: Why would Coastal be a Tier 1 law school when it opened in 1996? Good luck trying to crack the top ten if you haven't been around for a hundred years, or if you aren't part of the inner circule at US News/World Reports. A little checking into how they "rank" law schools" should provide some insight on how disingenuous the magazine is. To call it "flawed" is being pretty lenient in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteFor Profit: Yes, the school is for-profit. How would it benefit those who make a profit off the school to throw an inferior product into the work place? Here's your answer: it doesn't. The School and its private business backers work hard to ensure that the level of education received here is top notch.
Flooded Market Place: yes they take a lot of students - and they graduate a lot as well. If the market is over saturated - that's not the school's fault - it's yours for choosing a career path with too many other travelers on it. Also - look at the Florida Bar sitting rates by school. Coastal doesn't sit any more than other schools in the state. Don't believe me? here's the link to the most recent bar results: http://www.floridabarexam.org/public/main.nsf/ES0911.PDF/$file/ES0911.PDF
Both Univeristy of Florida (the big dog in this state) and University of Miami sat more students for the bar exam than Coastal did.
It is what you make of it: As with anything, your life is what you make of it. You either make your grades, or you don't. You either work hard to land a good job, or you don't. You either choose to go to Coastal, or you go somewhere else. If you have the grades and LSAT scores to go to a tier 1 - then go. None of that however, means that Coastal offers an inferior product.
By the way, I am a 2004 coastal grad. I never had any problem finding a job, and my salary is the same, if not more, than many an attorney who went to a higher tiered law school. I passed the same bar as everyone else and i worked hard for my position in life. I went to Coastal for a variety of reasons - and not one of them had to do with my inability to get into a "higher ranked" school. I do not view my experience or education at Coastal as a hinderance or a negative in any way, shape or form.
UNLV Boyd School of Law opened in 1998. They are in the top 10 for legal writing, and number 76 over all so I don't think that FCSL being opened in 1996 is any excuse for being ranked in the 4th tier.
DeleteI too am an FCSL grad ('09). I can tell you the lives of myself and the ten others I know who graduated from FCSL are very bad. We all work. But we work as mail carriers, waitresses, substitute school teachers, taxi cab drivers, and security guards. These are the painful facts, and it is very, very difficult to get through a day without receiving a phone call from a student loan debt collector. Quit bullshitting and just tell the truth so that others who read this might avoid our FCSL problem.
ReplyDeletechange your fucking number, "legal genius"
ReplyDeleteLOL
DeleteExcellent...perfect reply! Can I please hire you? That was the best reply I have seen thus far!
I am curious to know your GPA and LSAT score applying to Coastal. I am not trying to disrespect you. I am just trying to understand. I have read that many law school grads are not working as attorneys. This is not exclusive to Coastal grads. This information is easy to find on the web. Are there no jobs at all? Not even part time? Can you work as a paralegal to get your foot in the door? Please tell us more about your experience.
ReplyDeleteCoastal grad here (2010). Unfortunately for current and prospective Coastal students, I have to agree with the naysayers. I am from Jacksonville and am presently employed at my father's firm. I make decent money but looking at my graduating class, I am an exception. Coastal is a scam plain and simple. Back in the late 90's, someone realized that the government was playing fast and loose when it comes to student loans (private industry also got in on the action, though boy to the same degree). These enterprising folks realized that $$ was being bestowed upon students
ReplyDeleteCtd.
ReplyDeleteWith little discretion. Students are merely the conduit through which the money travels from the government and other lenders, whom are protected due to the nondischargibility (sp?) of the loans, into the hands of the universities or, in Coastals case, the hands of the shareholders. Looking back, it is laughable how seriously some of my fellow classmates treated school for a piece of paper that is not worth anywhere near the value that was paid for it. One of my best friends graduated at the top of his class the year before me. I'm talking top 3%. While he was lucky to get a job, the fact is that he is now making $41000 as a public defender and owes more than double that. Sure he is on IBR and his loans will be forgiven if he lasts 10 years but if he doesn't last he is going to have accrued a shitload of interest and even if it is forgiven, don't forget about the terrible tax penalties. I could talk for days about how sad it is to see 2 and 3L interns around the courthouse. I can tell that many of them are beginning to realize that the volunteer work they are doing for the PD or SAO is the closest they will ever come to legal work. Last semester, the PD was actually turning away unpaid interns!!!!! I'll repeat.... UNPAID fucking INTERNS. Well there is my rant on Coastal. Oh and for the poster who questioned the grammar of some commenters, I was a legal writing tutor for a few folks at Coastal and let me tell you, I am not surprised that someone purporting to be a Coastal student can't form a sentence...
With your vial language and "anonymous" posting, why would you ever think anyone would ever take you seriously?
DeleteI think the word you seek is "vile", moron
DeleteIf I made $20MM from a $5000 investment? I would not be so quick to judge (no pun intended) him a moron, you dummy!
DeleteI attended John Marshall Law School in Atlanta, GA in the early 70's. There was not a more BS law school education to be had at the time. They were NOT ABA at the time and eventually even lost their state accreditation. As a foot note, the school was purchased by new owners since and is now fully accredited by the ABA.
ReplyDeleteI know times have changed since the '70's.... but the truth is... there is always room for one more GOOD lawyer in the market place. To prospective students... get a law education anywhere you can! There's plenty of money to be made if you're a self starter. I made $20 million practicing law on a 3 year investment that cost less than $5,000 TOTAL!!! And I wasn't alone. It can still be done.
Also, there are 5 states that still allow one to"Read Law" under the tutelage of a practicing attorney. You don't even have to go to law school to become a lawyer in America. I wish I had done that but didn't know about it at the time. The ABA controls the law school market and does everything to discourage these programs. Those states are California, Vermont, Virginia, Wyoming and Washington.
Hope this has been helpful.
Good luck,
Harvey Siegel
http://theDUILawyers.com/
YOU ROCK HARVEY, & truth be told you would have excelled in any field. I am a go getter as you & I'm going to law school, not for lack of job opportunities but because I know the power of having a law degree. I have excelled at all positions because I honestly just know I can. I don't think it's the school that makes or breaks a person, it's their attitude & drive. So if your going to make it as a lawyer... you will... simply put... & if you believe it's Yale or FCSL that actually makes you... you already given up your power.
DeleteI am an FCSL alumnus. I have to say I got a good education at FCSL. I passed the Florida Bar on the first attempt. The professors definitely seem to care about the students and are accessible. You know the cost going in so no complaints on the way out. What I would recommend againstis applying to the Florida Bar. The process is lengthy for anyone who is not 23 years old with no negative history of any kind. The FBBE is notorious for delaying people over matters distant in time and which are not rationally related to the practice of law. Don't think that something happening ten years or fifteen years ago when you were 17 years old or even 13 years old will make any difference. The FBBE has alleged that people are unfit for things of that age. Word to the wise, go to New York or some other state that has a sane process and examining authorities that have not so lost contact with reality that they believe they can judge your "character" in the same way that a Baptist deacon board might.
ReplyDeleteI graduated from Florida Coastal in 2010. I passesd the California Bar on the first attempt, and I attribute that to Florida Coastal. I work on the west coast, and just got a new job where i make nearly six figures. I can't complain about the education I received at Coastal. I agree that the tuition is steep, but I think they provide a good cirriculum and good student experience.
ReplyDeleteNot all lawyers who graduated good schools turned to be good lawyers and not all graduates of bottom tier law schools are unemployed and worthless. A few decades ago law education was not even required to practice law. Some of the US Supreme Court members had no formal legal education and yet succeeded in life. Bottom line is, no client gives a ... about what school you went to. If you really have what it takes to be a good lawyer you could attend the worst school and still be better than one who went for the prestigious Harvard, but turned to be a looser. The only big difference between a prestigious and a less popular school is the amount of debt you will end up with. So , just study diligently and do the best you can. Hard work always pays off.
ReplyDeleteFor someone who does not like something, you are quite empassioned. I would imagine that this "bottom-tier" school rejected your application for admission.
ReplyDeleteI am the writer of the guest post. I'm checking here because I'm curious to see what's happening two years later. Happy to see the post has been noticed!
ReplyDeleteFor those who think I couldn't hack it at FCSL, I wouldn't even APPLY to FCSL. In fact, I turned down a top-14 school in favor of McKinsey. So that tells you something about my abilities and work ethic.
In a post from 2011 Charles M. stated the following, "Secondly, I agree that the curriculum is incredibly difficult. I personally lost a partial scholarship, yet I feel absolutely fortunate to have been faced with such a daunting challenge. Better to loose the scholarship now, but gain the benefit of a superior education. If Harvard grad would find the material I survived to be difficult, then all the better are my prospects for kicking their asses in the court room! The professors are truly qualified."
ReplyDeleteLaw school is difficult anywhere. It doesn't matter if you go to a T1 School or a T4 School. I don't think you'll necessarily kick a Harvard grad's ass in the courtroom just b/c they'd agree the curriculum is difficult at your school. You're studying the same thing....no matter where you go, and it's hard for everyone.
Everybody wants to get in to what they think is big league firm. Meanwhile those who are in the big league firms just want to get out. Some even jump out the windows. The moral of the story is be careful of what you think you want. So.... jump.
ReplyDeleteI am ranked in the top 4% of Coastal and I am not in debt. Im in the JD/MBA program and I have a job after the Bar Exam paying double of what is being said.
ReplyDeleteI don't know about FCSL back in 2011, but it's 2016 now, the school has a new dean, and has been awarded numerous honors over the past few years. I am currently a student and I love it. Just an FYI to anyone thinking of attending who finds this page as I did. Note the dates of the comments (almost entirely pre-2012). Also many of these complaints regard common law school policies not at all specific to FCSL (such as the grading policy). Cheers!
ReplyDeleteThe original post states that as a rule of thumb, never attend a school which will cost you to incur more debt than the expected salary your first year after. Let that sink in for a second. Name 1 law school that costs less than the expected salary of graduates their 1st year as an attorney? This guy us to be thinking of famous pop icon school, I hear it only costs 5k a year and you can expect to become an instant millionaire as soon as you graduate. Lol clearly whoever wrote the original post here has absolutely no clue as to how the real world works or what hard work is.
ReplyDelete